slackers

[cheffy]

Let me set up the situation first then we will ask for comments.

New scout crosses over into troop in March. We start to book summer camp and all first years want to go except this one says he can't. We find out that dads been off work for awhile. Committee decides to pay for dad and son to go to camp.

We notice on other campouts that dad and sson are sort of lazy and not really with the program. Son is always the last to show up for formation and is the first to complain.

So summer camp comes around and while other adults are helping out dad is reading a book.

We gave dad a job and it became too much for him to walk the 100 yards to the program center and drop off paperwork.

Friday when double checking MB cards we notice Jr. has several partials. All the requirments that were missing were written ones. Dad wants to know why a partial? we explain "no work, no badge." Basiclly says son shouldn't have to do homework at camp. "fine, do it late r and finish badge or not. Jr.s choice"

Time to leave quartermaster assigns equipmet to scouts to take home and clean. Jr get the tent he slept in. Dad says why? and that the Quartermaster is picking on his son. Time for intervention. Explain to dad that everybody takes someting home to clean and bring back to

Quartermaster for checkin and storage.

 

I've ramble on too long here.

How Would you deal with this guy and kid. I've got a few ideas to get the kid more involved and think the dada will either follow or stop bugging us.

[Fat Old Guy]

The SM and the CC need to sit down with this dad and explain the program and how "you have to do the work" and "everyone pulls his weight." Also explain to dad that he's free to not help out but if he if he says that he's going to do something, he has to do it.

 

They might straighten out or they might run. Either way is good. We aren't here to save the world.

[FScouter]

Sounds like Dad is being a dad. He doesn't understand all the ins and outs of how a troop operates. But dads aren't expected to have the same level of understanding as an assistant Scoutmaster or other registered adult member. He's on vacation. If you want adult leaders at camp to share the reponsibilities, sign up committee members or assistant Scoutmasters.

 

If the boy just bridged, he will have a lot to learn about how his troop operates.

[ASM59]

I must disagree FScouter, the Troop paid for Dad to go, he should be able to perform a few tasks that the SM or ASM asked him to do. I fully understand that he may not know enough about how a campout runs to pitch in on his own, which is why (I would think) that he was assigned a job to do. Knowing that the Troop paid my way, I would want to help in anyway possible. We have a policy in our Troop that says, "Leaders, Scouts, and Parents must conduct themselves in accordance with the Scout Oath and Scout Law during any Scouting function". This Dad was not setting a good example to his son or the other scouts at summer camp and was not following Scouting principles.

I might give him a little slack if he paid his own way, but I would still hope anyone in the campsite would want to help...

 

Just my thoughts...

[cheffy]

what asm59 said is what is ticking everyone off.

Other parents that paid to go to camp and took time off work, worked their share. All this slacker did was sleep eat and complain. Yes he has been around enough to know the program but just doesn't want to accept the program. I thinking that the tent Jr took home will come back in the same shape it left.

[firstpusk]

I think that there are two separate issues here. The first is the decision on the part of the Troop Committee to support the family is a done deal. The second is the issue of adult leader performance and its effect on boy behavior.

 

It may have been a mistake for the troop to pay for this family, but there is no changing it. I have been involved in several troops in my time scoutmastering. One thing that was common to all of them is it was not common knowledge which families got help. I strongly suggest that this is changed before next year's camp. This sort of information can lead to unfair comparisons and who paid for camp should not impact judgements of performance.

 

The second issue is a training issue. All adults at camp need to know their critical role in shaping the experience for the boys. If they are not willing to put in a strong effort and set a good example, they don't belong at summer camp. For the young boys, this is the highlight of their new scouting experience. This dad had a negative impact on his own son and probably soured it for other boys as well. This can not be allowed to happen. I have seen adults sent home. I have not done it but I would do it if I felt I had to for the good of the troop. Some folks are not cut out for a week of camp as a leader.

 

It seems clear that this man did not buy into the philosophy of the troop. The role of the SM is to make sure every parent in the field understands their role and agrees to do their best. Whether they are officially SA's or not, they are still the SM's staff.

[OneHour]

My question is why the troop pays for the dad to go? Did you need an extra adult or do you have enough without the gentleman? Is the boy a "special need" scout who requires constant care of his father? The way that it seems, the boy is perfectly fine! If the boy is a "special need" scout who requires constant care of his dad, then I would agree that the Committee did the right thing to pay for both dad and son. If he is not a "special need" scout, then paying for the boy is more than generous. If you don't have enough adult, then there must have a list of tasks that need to be done and those should have been communicated to the guy before you all left for the camp (by the SM or the outing adult leader).

 

Before each summer camp, we sit the boys and their parents down and gave them an faq of do's and don'ts and what to expect. The accompanying adults know exactly what is needed to be done. Some of our adults went to get trained (BSA lifeguard, safe swim, safety afloat, trek safely, etc.) From March to June, the boy and his dad should have been exposed to (and explained) the workings of the troop, including campouts, responsibilities of boys and adults, etc. It seems to me that this boy and his dad went without much knowledge of summer camp, boy scout process (merit badge, advancement, etc.) and troop protocol. On the other hand, the dad seems to be non-involvement type. If I were he and not knowing the protocol or process, I would have asked how I could help.

 

Now, I would ask the SPL to go through the patrol method and the different troop's processes/protocols with the new scout and ask the SM to have a talk with the dad about the protocol within the troop.

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Fuzzy Bear]

The other side of the coin:

 

Dad was not a member of the BSA. He had not been trained. He had not been informed. He believed it was "camp".

 

Son obviously had not been trained. He had not been informed. He did not know what to expect and he acted in accordance with the idea of "camp".

 

Both had been given their camp registration by well meaning adults that should have known that a Scout pays his own way. The idea being that if a person works, then they can do. If they do not work, they cannot do. If the well meaning adults expected the Scout to act responsibly, then they would have given him work to do to earn the money, same goes for Dad.

 

In the Scout program, a person must get up and walk on their own. We do not walk for them and we do not magically heal wounds of irresponsibility. Camp is work and it is educational and it is fun but it is not just fun.

 

FB

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

[hotdesk]

Two important positions should be used when dealing with new scouts. The first should be a Troop Guide. The Guide should work with the new scouts for at least six months to make sure they understand the program, have fun, and that the Patrol Leader has the tools neccessary to run his patrol.

 

The other position is an Assistant Scoutmaster that is the director of the New Scout Program. It should be their responsiblity to make sure that the scout's parents understand the program and answer their questions.

 

As far as leadership goes at Summer Camp it is understandable for each one to have some kind of responsiblity. However, if each one is given a responsiblity it should be something that they can manage and that they can do. More important jobs should be left to Assistant Scoutmasters and the Scoutmaster and then what ever parents you have can handle smaller issues.

 

As far as the troop paying for the parent I can understand. Our troop has paid for parents to go. We started this partice the year after we couldn't go to Summer Camp because we didn't have enough adults. However, during the rest of the year parents kinda of earn the right to get paid for by helping with some misc. Troop Committee job or by helping at one of our many fundraisers. One of them is County Fair Parking, which brings in over $2,000, where adults are asked to work at least two shifts.

 

However, as far as paying right out for the scout to go I don't agree with. He have a scout whose parents are in the same crowd but we stilled required the scout to "earn" money. He will eventually end up paying because money will go into his scout account from the fundraisers he will work. Plus he had an adult leader who past away at the age of 50 and his memorial was set up with the troop. The money that came in was marked for a Campership by the family request.(This message has been edited by hotdesk)

[dsteele]

Does the Scout have reading problems? I ask because it seems that he did all but the written requirements.

 

 

I wouldn't put too much effort into Dad. Scout leaders aren't here to fix him. You gave him an opportunity to spend a wonderful week with his son. He chose to stare at a book. I phrased it that way on purpose -- he may have reading problems as well.

 

Unc.

[Eamonn]

Hi Cheffy,

Maybe I'm wrong? But I kinda get the feeling that you don't like this Dad.

I have to admit that I have never heard of a Troop paying for a Dad who isn't a leader to attend camp. To tell the truth I am not in favor of paying the entire amount for a Scout to attend camp. To my way of thinking it goes against "A Scout is thrifty." I believe that we offer enough and at times too many opportunities for Scouts to raise the money or save the money. My Son tells me that I'm cheap. I say that I'm frugal. Still by giving this Lad a free ride he doesn't have any ownership of the camp. It is just a free ride.

Most Patrols that I have seen in action have a way of dealing with Patrol members who are not pulling their weight. Normally it starts with the other Patrol members complaining and ends with the Patrol Leader laying down the law. A lot of this hostility can be avoided by having the work/duty roster posted and planned before the camp.

Please don't give up on the Lad after all he didn't pick his parents.

As for the Dad, I'm surprised that some of the other adults in camp didn't in a very polite way explain to him that there were things that needed to be done and it was time for him to get with the program and get off his duff. I would next time I met with him explain that Scout Camp is not Club Med and if he plans on attending any other camps that he will be expected to pay his way, this is the Boy Scouts Of America and we are not in the habit of subsidizing non-members and he will be expected to help with any and all chores that need to be done. If he does decide to attend another camp and starts to complain I would remind him that A Scout is cheerful and would he kindly put a sock in it as he is setting a poor example for the Scouts.

Eamonn.

[ozemu]

We have one fool dad too. Nice bloke one on one. Arrogant chauvanist twit other times. Helps everyone appreciatte that the son has a few issues but isnt too bad considering.

 

Try an expedition. Requires a physical effort and teamwork in order to participate.