Medical Forms

[scoutldr]

Discussion happening now over on Facebook.  Are BSA Medical Forms required of NON-BSA members (friends, relatives) participating in Eagle Projects?  

[T2Eagle]

My answer would be that I don't know of any unit that does that, and, assuming this is a run of the mill service project not some overnight event, I have never heard of or seen any other organization require medical forms for this type of participation.

If there's someone in your troop who is particularly fanatic it about it have them be the person who shows up at the event and hands them out and collects them.

[eagle90]

Absolutely not.  Let's not get carried away with paperwork and regulations!

[scoutldr]

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/ahmr/medical-formfaqs/?fbclid=IwAR24fCLbidVsRhzUqFxvao5GIs3TijhFt4pTNduHGHcDjf46yY1pz2ASNKU

Third Q/A down.  This is what they are hanging their argument on.  ANY and ALL Scouting activities and ALL Participants.

I agree...never seen it, nor would I ever enforce it.

RichardB...any thoughts?

[NealOnWheels]

See the latest Guide To Safe Scouting. 

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf

Look on page 85 for the section "Service Project Planning Guidelines".  "Look closely at page 88 for Health/Sanitation Considerations".  It seems to me it states participants should provide health forms available (I would think part A & B would be appropriate).

[RichardB]

Just got to love folks on Social media, the FB post figured it out after a while,  but not before those in the fray sent emails to at least a couple of folk and posted to other social media expanding the call for what could be interpreted as let's make it hard.       Who exactly is "they" @scoutldr

Side bar to the OP:   Question - do you really want a "rule" for everything?     What if the rule isn't the answer you seek?  Oh, and I'm all for making this simple - how would you change up this https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/ahmr/ for better for clarity:  "Applies to ALL participants" 

Could we apply common sense, the Scout Oath and Law and what is reasonable to the hypothetical question poised?    These are just hypothetical examples, every situation is going to be different and trusted adults need to help the candidate make good choices.   Grandma comes to a Blue and Gold to watch Tammy get her Arrow of Light, reasonably not participating.   Timmy's Dad running the chain saw in the TX cool front today at 98 degrees, it's in Scouting's and Timmy's Dad's best interest that folks have an AHMR on location and an adult leader looking over it before starting the work.  

Background

@NealOnWheels here is a direct link to the planning guidelines.   https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-027.pdf  

The first FAQ's of the AHMR outlines why Scouting has an AHMR.    Excerpt with the Safety guy's emphasis added.   

Q. Why does the BSA require all participants to have an Annual Health and Medical Record? 
A. The AMHR serves many purposes. Completing a health history promotes health awareness, collects necessary data, and provides medical professionals critical information needed to treat a patient in the event of an illness or injury. It also provides emergency contact information.

Poor health and/or lack of awareness of risk factors have led to disabling injuries, illnesses, and even fatalities. Because we care about our participants’ health and safety, the Boy Scouts of America has produced and required use of standardized annual health and medical information since at least the 1930s...

 

[mrkstvns]

19 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Third Q/A down.  This is what they are hanging their argument on.  ANY and ALL Scouting activities and ALL Participants.

I agree...never seen it, nor would I ever enforce it.

Astounding the kind of overreach and unnecessary paperwork that some people can fantasize about.

I'll be sure to avoid reading that FAQ so I have plausible deniability when I continue to use common sense about when to collect (like for camping and adventurous activities) and not collect (like for trivial service projects, merit badge workshops, non-strenuous day trips, etc.)

Thanks for the heads-up about astounding stupidity abounding in some corners of scouting...

[scoutldr]

With respect, @RichardB, if common sense were a common virtue, we wouldn't need you OR the G2SS at all, and I would not have enjoyed a 45 year career in Occupational Health and Safety as a CIH.  "They" is the members of the FB group who raised the issue, insisting that ANYONE who is present to participate in an Eagle project is REQUIRED to fill out and submit a BSA Medical form.  Really?  Yes, we can discuss hypotheticals all day long, but your "clear and concise" language leaves little to interpretation.

[Cburkhardt]

I would like examples of an annual health/consent form.  This is obviously about making sure the parent/guardian has notice and has given specific consent for activities and events a Scout engages in.  There would be precise ways to do this in a document.  Some might list every pre-planned date and activity for the year.  Others might reference categories of activities.  In any case, please post some links to documents or web sites.   

[RichardB]

6 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

I would like examples of an annual health/consent form.  This is obviously about making sure the parent/guardian has notice and has given specific consent for activities and events a Scout engages in.  There would be precise ways to do this in a document.  Some might list every pre-planned date and activity for the year.  Others might reference categories of activities.  In any case, please post some links to documents or web sites.   

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/04/10/ask-the-expert-the-who-when-and-why-of-scout-permission-slips/ gives background.  No plans to change.  

[fred8033]

Hmmm.....   

On the "don't need" side ... I would refer to Guide To Safe Scouting and specifically the sweet 16 of safety.   https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/sweet16/   It refers to "potentially strenuous activity" and does not mention health forms.  I could see interpreting some Eagle projects as not needing.

 

Quote

 

2. PHYSICAL FITNESS

For youth participants in any potentially strenuous activity, the supervisor should receive a complete health history from a health-care professional, parent, or guardian. Adult participants and youth involved in higher-risk activity (e.g., scuba) may require professional evaluation in addition to the health history. The supervisor should adjust all supervision, discipline, and protection to anticipate potential risks associated with individual health conditions. Neither youth nor adults should participate in activities for which they are unfit. To do so would place both the individual and others at risk.

 

 

 

On the need side, Guide To Safe Scouting on page 84 talks about safety of service projects.  Page 88 (still in the service project checklist) has check boxes for having the health forms. 

Hmmm.... Our troop has brought the health forms for troop members in the past, but we've never requested them of the average helper. 

 

[mrkstvns]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

Hmmm.... Our troop has brought the health forms for troop members in the past, but we've never requested them of the average helper. 

Sounds to me like a sure-fire way to discourage people from wanting to help the scouts...

I know that mindless bureaucracy and paperwork sure does dampen MY enthusiasm....

[fred8033]

54 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

Sounds to me like a sure-fire way to discourage people from wanting to help the scouts...

I know that mindless bureaucracy and paperwork sure does dampen MY enthusiasm....

We keep all our troop members health forms in a quick access water-proof container.  It's actually zero work for events and activities.  

I agree though.  I can't imagine asking for paperwork like that for short-time volunteers.  

[mds3d]

If you really want to cover your bases, and I do think that this is technically required, you might think of how this would be easiest for the situation.  I would recommend providing the form to volunteers ahead of time (A&B) with something like the following explanation on an envelope containing the form)

 

Quote

Thanks for your interest in helping complete an important part of  (insert Scout's name) trail to earning his Eagle Scout award.  We appreciate your willingness to help this scout while helping us serve our community.  Because the BSA takes safety very seriously we ask  that you fill out the enclosed medical form. The Annual Heath and Medical Record(AHMR) is the BSA's standard form for all scouting activities.  

The AHMR serves many purposes. Completing a health history promotes health awareness, collects necessary data, and provides medical professionals critical information needed to treat a patient in the event of an illness or injury. It also provides emergency contact information.

Poor health and/or lack of awareness of risk factors have led to disabling injuries, illnesses, and even fatalities. Because we care about our participants’ health and safety, the Boy Scouts of America has produced and required use of standardized annual health and medical information since at least the 1930s.

If you have any questions about the form please contact us at (contact info here).  If you desire, we can return your form to you at then end of the activity, or we can safely keep it until the end of the year in case you are able to participate in any other scouting activities.   If we keep the form it will be maintained by the local unit and not provided to the BSA.  The form will only be reviewed in the event of a medical emergency.  If you have any health issues you feel we need to know about ahead of the activity please inform (adult in charge of medical forms) when turning in your form. 

Thank you again for you participation.

As an explanation - I advocate for the following handling of the AHMR- 
Forms are turned in sealed in a standard envelope. 
Each participant (or guardian) is asked "Do you (or your scout) have any medical issues we should be aware of before we are away from prompt medical care?" This puts the informing of allergies and medical conditions on them and allows them to put things on the form that they think the doctor needs but you don't.
Forms are returned at the end of each activity and brought to each activity (no form, no go). That keeps you from having to keep a file of confidential medical information. 

 

 

[Buggie]

Might also want to bring a diesel powered industrial paper shredder. You know, for the after party form shredding entertainment.  Then watch someone who just shredded their document have their fingers mangled and then where are you? Man, we just can't win!