Council denies unit fundraiser

[kmorley971]

any experience or recommendations when Council denies unit fundraiser for no clear reason? appears there is no appeals process and thus unit is denied opportunity to independently support program. 

[Pale Horse]

If council denied it, who would you appeal to? National?  Doubt that's an issue they'd get involved in.

 

If you want real advice on what to do, post actual details of your situation.

[SSScout]

Directly ask the Scout Executive "why?"   and go from there.  If your Fund Raising Application was fully filled out, answering all questions (how, where , what,  etc. )  you should be able to get an answer as to "why".   Be politely persistent . A Scout is Courteous, Loyal,  Obedient, etc.   

[fred8033]

When our pack or troop sold wreaths, we didn't ask permission.  When other units sold candy or flowers, I doubt they asked permission.

With that said, you need to provide at least some details (even if generic) to put context to the question.  

[kmorley971]

Council offered no specific reason other than claiming conflict with popcorn which is not sold until late august.

Primary question here is veto power of the Council to quash any fundraising activity that they do not sponsor and therefore monetarily benefit. Seems unnecessarily authoritarian when we have full support of our chartering org and the activity, selling food item, does not violate any of the "rules". Intent is to supplement popcorn activity later in year.

What if we proceed and simply do not wear Class A? 

[David CO]

This is very typical of council behavior. Don't let yourself get upset by it. The more you try to cooperate with council, the more unreasonable they will become. You need to set limits. Once you make them understand that there is only so much nonsense you are willing to take from them, they will settle down and let you run your program with a minimal amount of interference.

[SSScout]

1 hour ago, kmorley971 said:

Council offered no specific reason other than claiming conflict with popcorn which is not sold until late august.

Primary question here is veto power of the Council to quash any fundraising activity that they do not sponsor and therefore monetarily benefit. Seems unnecessarily authoritarian when we have full support of our chartering org and the activity, selling food item, does not violate any of the "rules". Intent is to supplement popcorn activity later in year.

What if we proceed and simply do not wear Class A? 

IMHO, this is an issue that deserves a wider audience.   As I suggested, take it directly to the SE,  and to your COR. The COR is officially your rep to the Council.  Talk to your RoundTable, to your District Leadership.   Compare notes with other Units.   Conflict with popcorn sales is not a valid reason to NOT fundraise somehow for your Unit.  

The only "discipline"  the Council can do is pull your Unit Charter.  That, and rescind everyone's membership in BSA.   Those are the only things the Council thru the SE can do.  I seriously doubt they would go that route, but ya never can tell.   Thus the need for lots of back up, make the issue not just yours, but the rest of Scout Worlds.... 

[David CO]

42 minutes ago, SSScout said:

As I suggested, take it directly to the SE,  and to your COR. The COR is officially your rep to the Council.  Talk to your RoundTable, to your District Leadership.   Compare notes with other Units.  

That seems like a lot of bother when there is a much simpler solution. Have your Chartered Organization do your fundraiser, under its own umbrella, and donate the proceeds to the unit. Takes the council out of the equation entirely.

[kmorley971]

@David CO

so scouts would simple wear class b when conducting sales led by CO to support thier scout programs

[David CO]

1 hour ago, kmorley971 said:

@David CO

so scouts would simple wear class b when conducting sales led by CO to support thier scout programs

Use common sense when deciding what to wear at a CO event. You certainly wouldn't wear any sort of scout apparel at a beer tent. 

I wouldn't wear a scout uniform if going door-to-door selling a product. It would make it too easy to confuse the customer into thinking the CO fundraiser is a scout sanctioned fundraiser. Honesty is the key issue here.

My unit manned the concession stand at our school's athletic events. There was no possibility of anyone becoming confused. It was a school fundraiser at a school event on school property. There was no need to prohibit the wearing of scout uniforms.

[DuctTape]

There are no class A or class B uniforms in BSA.

[fred8033]

16 hours ago, kmorley971 said:

Primary question here is veto power of the Council to quash any fundraising activity that they do not sponsor and therefore monetarily benefit.

They absolutely have the power to say no.  The have little power to enforce.  

Just be considerate.  Support your council by selling popcorn and friends of scouting.  Beyond that, I wouldn't ask about other fundraisers.  Focus on making your unit provide the best scouting program.  The rest is noise. 

[David CO]

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

They absolutely have the power to say no.  

They do not have the authority to say no to a Chartered Organization's fundraiser.

 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

Playing Devil's Advocate. The council may have a legitimate reason for not allowing the fundraiser. If they accept United Way or other 3rd party funding, they may not be allowed to any fundraiser during a certain time period, to include all suborganizations like troops, ships, packs, and crews.

The council may also be planning to ask for a large donation from a donor in the community. I know my council was getting ready to ask a donor for money to buy canoes and kayaks for a new sea base program. A local troop  went ahead and asked the donor directly for the money, and got it for themselves instead.

 

Now onto my experience

One troop I was with went through the formality of filling out the paperwork to do a fundraiser and was denied because the council wanted a"FOS contribution" of 10% . This after overcharging the unit for popcorn. (an aside, unit lost money on popcorn). Long story short, the fundraiser became the CO's fundraiser with proceeds benefiting the CO's Scouting units. The units sell the tickets for the CO, and provide the manpower for it.

[SSScout]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

The council may also be planning to ask for a large donation from a donor in the community. I know my council was getting ready to ask a donor for money to buy canoes and kayaks for a new sea base program. A local troop  went ahead and asked the donor directly for the money, and got it for themselves instead.

Here's a sticky point.   Scout units may not ask for "donations",  only the National or Local Councils may solicit outright donations. Scouts are specifically required (?) to EARN their way, thru selling products or work. That has been my understanding for a long time. Am I wrong?  

Now, if the donee gives something without being asked, if the need (watercraft?) is somehow sensed...….