Faith and Chaplaincy Issues

[TAHAWK]

3 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

Not exactly true.  BSA specifically requires some sort of religious belief of all members.  Trail Life USA specfically does not require religious belief of its youth members.  They do however require the leaders to be Christian and are unapologetic about the program being faith-based.  From their Membership FAQ

 

One can only hope.

[NJCubScouter]

Walk in the Woods, personally I believe that if you have an explicitly Christian organization and require adult leaders to be Christian (and not only Christian, but believers in the Trinity which excludes some people who call themselves Christian), the fact that the organization says it is open to youth of all faiths seems meaningless to me.

[WAKWIB]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:05 PM, NJCubScouter said:

Walk in the Woods, personally I believe that if you have an explicitly Christian organization and require adult leaders to be Christian (and not only Christian, but believers in the Trinity which excludes some people who call themselves Christian), the fact that the organization says it is open to youth of all faiths seems meaningless to me.

Trail Life and the churches that are CO's for their units view inclusion of non-Christian youth as part of their evangelistic outreach to the community.  They don't require "faith" as a requirement for the youth.  They are hoping they can plant the seeds of Christian faith through their program.  However, that's a side outcome for the most part. Most of the men and boys who participate in Trail Life just want to camp and enjoy outdoor fun.

[WAKWIB]

On 7/9/2019 at 11:20 AM, mrkstvns said:

Hehehe....I wonder how I'd respond if a scout came in and told me how he did his "Duty to God" by praising the mighty Zeus who rules from the heights of Mt Olympus...

I have a "Duty to God" conversation with several Scouts every year.  I would simply ask them,  "What does Zeus expect of you?"  "Do those expectations align with the Scout Law?"  "How are you meeting those expectations?" 

[David CO]

6 hours ago, WAKWIB said:

 "What does Zeus expect of you?"  "Do those expectations align with the Scout Law?"  "How are you meeting those expectations?" 

Have you ever read mythology?  Zeus would never be compliant with YP.  He is constantly taking strange forms and sexually molesting young people as they sleep.  Zeus is the perfect example of what BSA is trying to keep out of scouting.   

[WAKWIB]

16 hours ago, David CO said:

Have you ever read mythology?  Zeus would never be compliant with YP.  He is constantly taking strange forms and sexually molesting young people as they sleep.  Zeus is the perfect example of what BSA is trying to keep out of scouting.   

True!  And maybe I could share this lack of Zeus' integrity with the Scout in this very goofy scenario.  Keep in mind that the original poster of the Zeus comment was doing it in jest.  I seriously doubt that I will ever have to deal with such a situation.

 

[NJCubScouter]

On 8/12/2019 at 9:30 AM, David CO said:

Have you ever read mythology?  Zeus would never be compliant with YP.  He is constantly taking strange forms and sexually molesting young people as they sleep.  Zeus is the perfect example of what BSA is trying to keep out of scouting.

The hypothetical Scout probably read a sanitized version in school where they did not mention Leda and the Swan, Ganymede and the Eagle, etc. Ol' Zeus apparently had a preference for taking the form of birds.

[NJCubScouter]

On 8/12/2019 at 2:18 AM, WAKWIB said:

Trail Life and the churches that are CO's for their units view inclusion of non-Christian youth as part of their evangelistic outreach to the community.  They don't require "faith" as a requirement for the youth.  They are hoping they can plant the seeds of Christian faith through their program.  However, that's a side outcome for the most part. Most of the men and boys who participate in Trail Life just want to camp and enjoy outdoor fun.

I would be curious to know how clear they make it, up front, to parents of children who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that the organization may try to convert their sons to Christianity. 

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

I would be curious to know how clear they make it, up front, to parents of children who are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that the organization may try to convert their sons to Christianity. 

There is a famous quote: Preach all the time, and if you have to, use words. 

The Methodist church uses scouting to spread the message, but not by actively preaching by word. I would imagine that Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc COs are thinking along the same lines. 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

4 hours ago, Eagledad said:

The Methodist church uses scouting to spread the message, but not by actively preaching by word. I would imagine that Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc COs are thinking along the same lines. 

That's my point.  In the BSA you have CO's that are Christian churches, Jewish synagogues, Hindu temples, etc. and many that are not religious at all, like PTA's, American Legion, Elks, etc.  If you want a new unit of your own religious bent, you can line up the appropriate place of worship and start a new unit, regardless of which religion it is.  None of that is true for Trail Life.  You cannot get a charter for a Trail Life unit unless you are a Christian church (and maybe other kinds of Christian organizations, I don't know.)  The point is, Christian.  Nothing else.  I am not faulting them for that, it is their organization.  I was just wondering, since people say Trail Life is open to non-Christian youth (but not non-Christian adults), whether the group is open with parents of non-Christian youth about the fact that people are going to try to "spread the word" to their children.  If they are, and a parent chooses to send their child into that environment, that's fine.

By the way, the general rule within Judaism is to not proselytize to members of other faiths.

Edited August 13, 2019 by NJCubScouter

[Saltface]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:20 PM, NJCubScouter said:

That's my point.  In the BSA you have CO's that are Christian churches, Jewish synagogues, Hindu temples, etc. and many that are not religious at all, like PTA's, American Legion, Elks, etc.  If you want a new unit of your own religious bent, you can line up the appropriate place of worship and start a new unit, regardless of which religion it is.  None of that is true for Trail Life.  You cannot get a charter for a Trail Life unit unless you are a Christian church (and maybe other kinds of Christian organizations, I don't know.)  The point is, Christian.  Nothing else.  I am not faulting them for that, it is their organization.  I was just wondering, since people say Trail Life is open to non-Christian youth (but not non-Christian adults), whether the group is open with parents of non-Christian youth about the fact that people are going to try to "spread the word" to their children.  If they are, and a parent chooses to send their child into that environment, that's fine.

By the way, the general rule within Judaism is to not proselytize to members of other faiths.

The Trail Life troop I visited a while back was pretty forthcoming about incorporating religion into their program. Their handbook references the bible on the first page. A parent would have to be pretty dense to not realize their son was being preached to.

[Eagle1993]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:22 AM, WAKWIB said:

True!  And maybe I could share this lack of Zeus' integrity with the Scout in this very goofy scenario.  Keep in mind that the original poster of the Zeus comment was doing it in jest.  I seriously doubt that I will ever have to deal with such a situation.

 

We had. Den leader talk to his den about Greek and Roman gods.  One of the scouts asked why these gods are no longer believed in.  The leader said that well, people stopped believing in those gods and moved on to other religions.  Then the scout asked... what happens when people stop believing in today’s God(s).   Den meeting over.....  

I think our Faith den meeting created some agnostics.