Adult supervision on Webelos Campout

[ASM59]

We have had a question come up that none of us with BALOO training are sure about. We (Boy Scout Troop) have invited a Webelos II Patrol on a campout. Unfortunately, adult supervision is a problem. With 8 Webelos in their Patrol, only 3 parents (one of which is the Den Leader) can make the campout. There are many issues in each family which result in the lack of Parental participation, all of which are legitimate and unavoidable (I won't go into all of the reasons but they are real).

My question is regarding a statement made by our former Scoutmaster. His understanding from somewhere is that Webelos do not need to have a one to one adult ratio for campouts. He seemed to believe that one adult to two or three Webelos is sufficient.

 

In looking through the G2SS, I found:

"A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent approved adult. Joint Webelos dentroop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips."

 

Note, that is is not necessary that they be under the supervision of their parent/guardian, but that they are to be under the supervision of an adult approved of by their parent/guardian.

 

So the question is, "What is the ratio of Webelos Scouts to Adults?"

We have a couple of Pack Leaders that can attend and are approved of by the parents who cannot attend, but we don't know what the ratio should be; 1:1, 2:1, 3:1...

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Thanks,

[EagleInKY]

I think this is another example of BSA keeping a guideline vague. I believe there is a strong preference for a 1-to-1 ratio. But, they don't want to seem insensitive to those who have parental "challenges". Personally, as a SM, I would ask them to prove at least a 2-1 ratio (no more than 2 boys per adult).

[EagleInKY]

Ooops, forgot to finish.... we have always had 100% participation from our Webelos parents, but I cannot gaurantee that will always be the case. We did have one parent have an issue come up at the last minute on a campout last year, so the parent gave another parent permission to take him.

[Twocubdad]

Page 21 of the Webelos Leader book covers this. The preference is that a Webelos camp with his parent. If that is not possible the parents may arrange with another parent to supervise their son for the campout. The other parent MAY NOT be one of the trip leaders. Otherwise the parents could just get together and say that the den leader has been assigned responsibility for supervising all the boys and turn it into a Boy Scout-type campout. Webelos are not allowed to camp with just their den leaders and no other parents.

 

To my knowledge there is no official ratio for the number of boys to parents. Our pack has a policy that a parent may be responsible for only one Scout in addition to their own children (we would probably fudge that in the case of brothers). We've also developed a form that both sets of parents sign assigning and accepting responsibility for the Scout.

 

We created the form after an instance where one parent sent their Webelos a campout assuming that a friend would supervise the son but without mentioning it to the friend. The friend had not planned to camp over night and left after dinner, leaving the Scout totally on his own. Incredible as it sounds, the boys parents went out of town for the weekend and couldn't be reached. (You don't want to know the message I left on their answering machine!) Fortunately, we had extra tents and the boy ended up bunking with a buddy. The Cubmaster and I spent the rest of the evening sharpening our knives for when the parents arrived Sunday morning.

[kenk]

If you have John Doe taking responsibility for his son Jake, and his neighbor's son Larry, where does Larry spend the night?

 

Option #1: Larry sleeps in the tent with John (and adult) and Jake (John's son). This violates the Guide to Safe Scouting rule: "When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his own parent or guardian." and the two-deep leadership rule.

 

Option #2: Larry sleeps in a tent with Jake (John's son). John sleeps in a seperate tent alone, or in a tent with another male adult. I think this is the one necessary.

 

Am I correct?

[kenk]

Sorry, but I meant to add that I interpret the use of the word "guardian" to mean "legal guardian", but how loose can that be interpreted? I can see where a boy's uncle would take him to camp in place of his parent(s) - with his parent's permission. Is that OK. So why not a parent-specified unrelated temporary guardian??

[boleta]

I have not seen it in writing from BSA, but our Council has a 2 to 1 - boys to adult ratio for Webelos Resident Camp. This is in writing from the Council. It works well and is good for the combined Troop-Webelos events too.

 

I was tenting with an adult when his son had a leaking tent and came into our tent in the middle of the night! UNCOMFORTABLE!

 

We have also had live-in boyfriends of the mom come on the outing when the mom is a single parent. Sometimes it is difficult to know the exact relationship there. Although uncomfortable, we need to ask if it is not the parent or legal guardian and say no if they are not registered adults with the units involved.

[boleta]

(This message has been edited by boleta)

[ASM59]

Thanks for all the input.

 

kenk - I think you've missed the only option that works in view of Youth Protection; the boys share a tent and the adult has his own tent or shares a tent with other adults.

 

Based on the reading from the G2SS, "It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent approved adult". Nothing here necessarily indicates that this person be a legal guardian.

 

boleta - Thanks for the information about your Council's policy. Perhaps I will check for a similar policy within our Council.

"UNCOMFORTABLE!" I would be too, and in fact this happend once with me on an outing, but I had no idea that the boy slipped in with his father during the night until I woke up the next morning.

 

Anyone else have any information about the Webelos:Adult ratio?

 

Thanks,

ASM59

[SR540Beaver]

This is kind of off topic, but related. I don't know if this is a national policy; but in our council, the only adults allowed at Webelos Resident camp are registered leaders.

[Twocubdad]

I can see where that would be a good thing, Beaver. Probably half the Webelos parents go to WRC with their sons. It has caused problems in the past, but during our pre=camp meeting I now remind the parents that the purpose of WRC is to acclimate their sons to a Boy Scout experience and to rely upon themselves, their buddies and their leaders. I tell the parent they are in camp as Scout leaders, not parents.

 

I'll let you know if it works next week.

[SR540Beaver]

Twocub,

 

Here is what the council's webpage for Resident camp says:

 

Due to insurance coverage, CGT Cub Scout and Webelos Scout Resident Camp sessions are camp sessions for Cub and Webelos Scouts, registered parents and registered Leaders only. Program and materials cannot be provided for brothers and sisters nor may unregistered adults attend. Please do not bring an extra person to Camp. This rule applies to all ages.

 

 

[kenk]

ASM59,

 

I agree with you on the tent arrangements. I think that was the option #2 I listed, though the names made it kind of confusing.

 

--Ken K.

[EagleInKY]

Our WRC is open to all parents/guardians. It's a great way for them to learn about the transition to Boy Scouting, and to figure out if they want to be a part of it. WRC is a great transition moment for the boys. They begin to learn about what scouting has to offer, and it offers a preview of the scouting program and Boy Scout summer camp. Parents can also learn this too, and find out that they enjoy it as well.

[scoutdad]

Orange cover Guide to Safe scouting 2003 printing:

 

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos scout be under the supervision of an adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop.

 

 

This states clearly that a Webelos scout must be supervised by his parent or his guardian. You cant supervise if you not there. His guardian would be just that , a legal guardian. No where does it say anything about an approved adult.

 

So - 8 Webelos scouts with 8 distinct parents means a total of 16 will go on an overnighter. The Webelos scouts can share a tent with each other while the same sex parents share a tent, or the Webelos scouts can share a tent with the person legally recognized as his parent or guardian. Do anything else and something bad happens then BSAs legal coverage will not know who you are!

 

YIS

Scoutdad