Activity approval

[qwazse]

When you spin off a different troop, do everyone a favor and meet on a different night from you current unit. There is nothing more frustrating to members of a community when they see that they have a choice of location, but meeting times are the same.

[David CO]

Just now, qwazse said:

When you spin off a different troop, do everyone a favor and meet on a different night from you current unit. There is nothing more frustrating to members of a community when they see that they have a choice of location, but meeting times are the same.

Yes. Meet on a different night.

Also, if the old unit has an established fundraiser activity, choose something different for your fundraiser. 

When starting a new troop, the leaders should make every effort to build a good relationship with the existing unit(s) in town. It is important to remember that your new unit will still be working with the old unit(s) at district and council events. 

[David CO]

7 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

 

I was quite surprised by this. It's not right to my mind.

 

It is right. The CC, COR, and IH should all be given a copy of the unit's calendar of events as soon as it is available. You should make this a routine practice (from day one) when you start your new unit. 

[karunamom3]

26 minutes ago, David CO said:

It is right. The CC, COR, and IH should all be given a copy of the unit's calendar of events as soon as it is available. You should make this a routine practice (from day one) when you start your new unit. 

Ok. Good to know. 

I was under the impression that the boys planned with guidance from the SM. Then committee secured what was needed to make it happen or to decline the event if resources couldn't be secured. 

I didn't realize the CC had final say before any committee discussion. I thought the SM dealt with program.

Edited June 13, 2019 by karunamom3

[DuctTape]

1 hour ago, karunamom3 said:

Ok. Good to know. 

I was under the impression that the boys planned with guidance from the SM. Then committee secured what was needed to make it happen or to decline the event if resources couldn't be secured. 

I didn't realize the CC had final say before any committee discussion. I thought the SM dealt with program.

That is how it should happen. If the CC, or COR is using his/her authority to veto an activity for dubious reasons he/she is demonstrating an abuse of power. 

[David CO]

48 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

That is how it should happen. If the CC, or COR is using his/her authority to veto an activity for dubious reasons he/she is demonstrating an abuse of power. 

Dubious reasons?

[DuctTape]

4 minutes ago, David CO said:

Dubious reasons?

dubious- not to be relied upon or suspect.

[David CO]

In my experience, when the Chartered Organization intervenes during the early stages of planning an activity, it is usually because it sees a conflict with another activity. This can be avoided by checking the master schedule in advance.

If this is not the case, and the Chartered Organization actually objects to the activity, this is a failure of leadership. The unit leadership, both youth and adult, should already be aware of the CO's policies and practices, and should be doing their level best to conform to them. The Chartered Organization owns the unit.

Edited June 13, 2019 by David CO

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

In my experience, when the Chartered Organization intervenes during the early stages of planning an activity, it is usually because it sees a conflict with another activity. This can be avoided by checking the master schedule in advance.

If this is not the case, and the Chartered Organization actually objects to the activity, this is a failure of leadership. The unit leadership, both youth and adult, should already be aware of the CO's policies and practices, and should be doing their level best to conform to them. The Chartered Organization owns the unit.

I'd concur here.  @David CO and I come from units with different levels of CO engagement.  In @David CO's I've gotten the impression the CO is more hands on and directive.  In mine, the CO has a very active COR who is an involved unit leader.  So, we see few corrections from the CO and more collaboration.

But, regardless of CO style, the unit leaders should have a very good handle on the priorities, policies, and concerns of the CO and should work with those as best possible.

[ParkMan]

3 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

Ok. Good to know. 

I was under the impression that the boys planned with guidance from the SM. Then committee secured what was needed to make it happen or to decline the event if resources couldn't be secured. 

I didn't realize the CC had final say before any committee discussion. I thought the SM dealt with program.

You're correct on that the SM & Scouts plan the calendar.  The Committee's role to do just what you describe and make sure that resources are available (people, equipment, money).  The Committee should be looking to say Yes to activities - not to say no.

One of the roles of the CC is to see that all functions are delegated and completed.  Program is critical part of the troop, but it's still a function that needs to be delegated and completed.

The important thing in all this is it isn't about power - it's about keeping things organized.  So, if your CC is running around telling everyone what to do because "the CC is in charge", they are missing the point.  Myself, I'd use the term conductor.  Every adult in the troop plays an important role.  When they all work together the troop sounds (I mean runs) great.  It's the role of the CC (conductor) to make sure tasks are organized so that the right person is doing them.  Every so often the CC provides some guidance to help people keep going in the right direction.

[fred8033]

10 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

Tough deciding when to split though. After summer camp? Before? After CO is secure & charter is complete or give a heads up before that?

Ack, why couldn't this be easy. We could have just quietly went to another unit but instead tried to be 'agents of change' for a failing unit. (Taken from another thoughtful post.)  I must say our boys certainly do not want to remain & that is key. 

After years in the program, my hindsight is if you do something, do it sooner than later.  We are often in scouts to benefit our sons.  Though the whole experience could be years, the time window for our sons (and daughters) to have a great experience is really short.  Spending too much time battling can destroy our scout's experience.  It's why I'm a deconstructionist.  Get the scouts out doing things (camping, exploring, building friendships).  Once you are doing that well, I call that a quality program.  From that quality program, look for opportunities to meet BSA's AIMs using BSA's methods.  But keep the program first and do it now if possible.  

I really don't know what power people have to deny a group of scouts goes camping or does some activity.  

[Eagle94-A1]

7 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

After years in the program, my hindsight is if you do something, do it sooner than later.  We are often in scouts to benefit our sons.  Though the whole experience could be years, the time window for our sons (and daughters) to have a great experience is really short.  Spending too much time battling can destroy our scout's experience.

110% SPOT ON! I left a troop that had issues, lots of them. While I worked to improve the situation over several years, and it was slowly getting better. But then the situation reversed course suddenly, and it got a lot worse extremely fast. I would say for about 8 months or so, I was tempted to yank my kids out of the troop, and only stayed because my sons didn't want to leave their friends. But it was affecting them. Oldest wanted to earn Eagle was was going to leave afterwards. Middle son was becoming more and more pessimistic, and constantly complained. BEST DECISION WAS LEAVING AND I WISH I WOULD HAVE DONE IT SOONER!

Not going to lie, it was hard on all of us. Kids do miss their friends. But they kids have been reinvigorated and are enjoying Scouts now. I wish I would have tansferred sooner.

 

[Eagledad]

3 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

The important thing in all this is it isn't about power - it's about keeping things organized.  So, if your CC is running around telling everyone what to do because "the CC is in charge", they are missing the point.  Myself, I'd use the term conductor.  Every adult in the troop plays an important role.  When they all work together the troop sounds (I mean runs) great.  It's the role of the CC (conductor) to make sure tasks are organized so that the right person is doing them.  Every so often the CC provides some guidance to help people keep going in the right direction.

Pretty good, Parkman.

While the CC may have the final authority, final approval of the scouts' plan would be unusual. Parkman's explanation is accurate, but doesn't quite explain reality. The CC should be the final authority based from the SM's bad choices, not the scouts'. The distance between the PLC and the CC is wide because the scouts need room to fail. The SM is the mentor for the PLC and requires enough space for the scouts to learn if their original choices and decisions won't work. When other adults start pulling their authority card to instruct the scouts they made bad decisions, then they are undermining the relationship between the scouts and adults. It's simple and complicated at the same time. But if the scouts start making decisions based from trying to keep adults off their back, then the growth from the experience of improving behavior and decision processes is limited. It is said scouting is a safe place. 

As for the CO, it is their program. But they should understand the process of the PLC making making plans and learning from their effort of putting the plan together. If the CO has to check  on the Scouts, then that CO doesn't want a boy run program where the scouts learn by failing. And their are CO's like that. 

Barry

[David CO]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

I really don't know what power people have to deny a group of scouts goes camping or does some activity.  

They own the unit. 

[mrkstvns]

10 minutes ago, David CO said:

They own the unit. 

Bzzzt!!!  

Wrong answer!

They hold a charter (i.e., a year-by-year license to operate the BSA program).