Are first class skills becoming obsolete?

[mrkstvns]

6 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

When it comes to evaluating any particular First Class skill, there's only one relevant question:

Do chicks dig it?

If the answer is yes, then it's relevant.

😎

That used to be true.  But in today's all-inclusive scouting program that accepts gays and females, there may exist scouts who don't feel they need to understand chicks.

[perdidochas]

2 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

I would revise the G2SS to eliminate as many prohibitions as possible, and may even make many of them into REQUIREMENTS.

For example, G2SS says that scouts under age 18 should not use power tools.

In today's world, we use power tools. A man won't be a competent family man and homeowner if he can't do basic work around the house. A scout should:

• Demonstrate how to safely and appropriately use 3 different power saws: such as a jigsaw, a circular saw, and a table saw
• Demonstrate how to safely use 3 different power tools used to maintain landscaping: such as a lawnmower, chainsaw, or hedge trimmers
• Show how to safely and appropriately use a power drill to: a) drill a small hole, b) use a hole cutter attachment to drill a hole large enough for a door knob or deadbolt lock, c) use a screw driver bit (standard or phillips) to build a wall frame or install drywall or fence boards

 

 

I agree totally. The downside of that requirement is all of the extra door knobs that will be installed at the Scout Hut.....

Edited June 12, 2019 by perdidochas

[Eagledad]

2 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

I would revise the G2SS to eliminate as many prohibitions as possible, and may even make many of them into REQUIREMENTS.

For example, G2SS says that scouts under age 18 should not use power tools.

In today's world, we use power tools. A man won't be a competent family man and homeowner if he can't do basic work around the house. A scout should:

• Demonstrate how to safely and appropriately use 3 different power saws: such as a jigsaw, a circular saw, and a table saw
• Demonstrate how to safely use 3 different power tools used to maintain landscaping: such as a lawnmower, chainsaw, or hedge trimmers
• Show how to safely and appropriately use a power drill to: a) drill a small hole, b) use a hole cutter attachment to drill a hole large enough for a door knob or deadbolt lock, c) use a screw driver bit (standard or phillips) to build a wall frame or install drywall or fence boards

 

 

One of my past Webelos was telling me at his ECOH that one of his most memorable Webelos meetings was learning how to safety operate a lawn mower. Only one of the 16 Webelos had mowed a lawn at the point of their life. Just starting it was a thrill he never forgot.

Barry

Edited June 12, 2019 by Eagledad

[MattR]

6 hours ago, perdidochas said:

We don't need to camp, either.  This is not a matter of absolute needs for scout camping or camping, but for life.

I think you're looking at my comments a bit differently than I intended. What I meant was that in order to participate with my troop I needed all those skills. My tent had ropes that required whipping and tying knots. We had no stoves, and hence had to build fires at least twice per campout. We had no patrol box so all the requirements for cooking, including make a list of required utensils, made sense because the PL just handed out utensils to each patrol member. I did have a stalking and tracking requirement. It did turn out to be useful when playing some games.

6 hours ago, perdidochas said:

Also, your post seemed a bit strange, as in the first two paragraphs you talk about how obsolete map/compass/axe/firebuilding are, then in the 4th paragraph you include all of the above as new first class requirements.

I see what you're saying, there is a paradox ...

6 hours ago, perdidochas said:

"Away from the road" camping. One of the camping requirements in 1a should require the scout or group of scouts to bring all of their essential gear with them for a camp overnight for a distance of at least a mile without motorized transport.  This could include backpacking, snowshoe packing, cross country sky packing, bikepacking, or canoe/kayak camping.

... but this is what I was thinking of. Either require skills that are needed for everyday (weekend?) camping or make them advanced enough that a scout is prepared for a more challenging campout (and hopefully that will be done more often). Make first class be, well, first class. I really like your off road camping idea.

6 hours ago, perdidochas said:

Sewing--require sewing on of a button, patch and repairing a hole. 

Not needed for camping but I like it. That alone might push for a uniform that is more practical.  Of course, I see a lot of scouts with velcro on their uniforms now.

6 hours ago, perdidochas said:

Also, not sure what you are talking about with "pre-made" meals, other than for backpacking?  Does your troop just buy a bunch of  Mountain-House meals for a car-camping trip? My sons' troop just bought ingredients and made the food for car camping from the ingredients (yes, they did buy just add water or milk pancake flour).    

Pre-cooked bacon, pre-made spaghetti sauce, pre-cooked hard boiled eggs, pre mixed eggs, and yes, pre mixed pancake batter and/or pancake mix. Cooking your own food from basic ingredients is much cheaper than all of this stuff. And it tastes better. And it's healthier.

[DuctTape]

Matt, Thank you for your last clarifying post. I interpreted your orginal the same as peri, your last post changed that interpretation so I now (think) I know where you are coming from.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by DuctTape

[mrkstvns]

14 hours ago, MattR said:

Pre-cooked bacon, pre-made spaghetti sauce, pre-cooked hard boiled eggs, pre mixed eggs, and yes, pre mixed pancake batter and/or pancake mix. Cooking your own food from basic ingredients is much cheaper than all of this stuff. And it tastes better. And it's healthier.

 

It's also important that kids get an OPPORTUNITY to do and learn through experience. Pre-cooked everything is just a babystep away from sending mom to the nearest McDonalds for fast junk food instead of bothering with camp stoves.

Am I the only person who thinks it's unconscionable that MOST BSA summer camps have eliminated patrol cooking in favor of mess halls where a surrogate mom fixes meals for the kids? The pitiful argument that it lets kids have more time to squeeze in an extra merit badge only shows the foolish over-emphasis on checkbox advancement embodied by too many scouters.

[qwazse]

Borrowed a ladder last weekend. Anchored it to the quad with one rope and two clove hitches. Worked better and faster than ratchet straps.

Now if only I can figure out the knot that would get the quad's winch to spool out as well as it spools in!

[TMSM]

32 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

Am I the only person who thinks it's unconscionable that MOST BSA summer camps have eliminated patrol cooking in favor of mess halls where a surrogate mom fixes meals for the kids?

No your are not. Our troop is  patrol method cooking only. We were disappointed that most choices for summer camp were dining hall but we have learn to demand our right to bring our own food. This works in most states around us except for Michigan where their are health laws against this.

We asked the scouts to vote on dining vs patrol method cook. votes was 43 to 1 for patrol method. The one vote for for dining ahll was from the laziest scout I have ever met.

[mrkstvns]

56 minutes ago, TMSM said:

We asked the scouts to vote on dining vs patrol method cook. votes was 43 to 1 for patrol method. The one vote for for dining ahll was from the laziest scout I have ever met.

 

I'm convinced that the impetus for lame dining halls at summer camp is lazy adults, not lazy scouts.  Most scouts I've met LIKE cooking their own meals.

[Chris1]

On 6/13/2019 at 10:23 AM, mrkstvns said:

 

I'm convinced that the impetus for lame dining halls at summer camp is lazy adults, not lazy scouts.  Most scouts I've met LIKE cooking their own meals.

I agree, that it is largely the adults telling scouts that they want dining halls. I think it is more for their own comfort than what is in the best interest of the youth.