Rank Advancement requirement changes (14th edition handbook)

[Dixit]

Changes to First Class and Scout rank requirements

https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/program-updates/

[mashmaster]

That is a bummer, they reduced camping and demonstrating knife safety requirements.  

[Jameson76]

32 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

That is a bummer, they reduced camping and demonstrating knife safety requirements.  

If you were around for the "Improved Scouting Program" from 73 - 79 there was NO camping required.  (it was an option, but not required) You could get Eagle and NO camping, outdoor cooking, or swimming.  The only time you may have had to go outside was for Environmental Science.

Dark days I tell you....dark days

Edited May 16, 2019 by Jameson76

[Dixit]

So upon further research it appears the Scout rank pocketknife change was effective 1/1/2019 and the First Class camping change was done back in 8/1/2017 (prior to my Scouts BSA involvement)

The point of the May 14 2019  "program update" is merely to point out the 14th edition handbooks have wrong language in print.

 

Quote

The text in the corresponding chapters of the handbook was not properly edited to reflect these changes and reflects the old requirements

 

[mashmaster]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

If you were around for the "Improved Scouting Program" from 73 - 79 there was NO camping required.  (it was an option, but not required) You could get Eagle and NO camping, outdoor cooking, or swimming.  The only time you may have had to go outside was for Environmental Science.

Dark days I tell you....dark days

Wow

[MikeS72]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

If you were around for the "Improved Scouting Program" from 73 - 79 there was NO camping required.  (it was an option, but not required) You could get Eagle and NO camping, outdoor cooking, or swimming.  The only time you may have had to go outside was for Environmental Science.

Dark days I tell you....dark days

I was a 20 year old ASM when that program began, and a 26 year old SM when it was abandoned.  While the IPS did not require camping, cooking, swimming, etc., we did not change the way we conducted our outdoor program.  We continued to camp, hike, backpack, just as we had always done.  I cannot remember any of my scouts saying that they were no longer going to participate in those activities just because the book no longer required them.

I am sure that there were a lot of troops that were adversely affected, or we would never have seen things brought back, but I am also sure that there were a lot of troops that continued to operate just the way they always had, just a few less things to sign off on the old tri-fold rank advancement cards.

[desertrat77]

4 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

I was a 20 year old ASM when that program began, and a 26 year old SM when it was abandoned.  While the IPS did not require camping, cooking, swimming, etc., we did not change the way we conducted our outdoor program.  We continued to camp, hike, backpack, just as we had always done.  I cannot remember any of my scouts saying that they were no longer going to participate in those activities just because the book no longer required them.

I am sure that there were a lot of troops that were adversely affected, or we would never have seen things brought back, but I am also sure that there were a lot of troops that continued to operate just the way they always had, just a few less things to sign off on the old tri-fold rank advancement cards.

Mike, if I could "green arrow" your post multiple times, I would.  I was a brand new Tenderfoot in 74, finished in 81 as an Eagle/JASM, and you described my scouting experience perfectly. 

Despite the profound flaws of the ISP, my various SMs provided an outdoor-driven program, just as you outlined.  Thank you for staying the course and ensuring we scouts got through  

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by desertrat77

[MattR]

I was a scout from roughly 71 to late 76. I vaguely remember the no camping required. We went anyway.

While Hillcourt was pulled out of retirement to fix things he really needed to fix the culture at national because we seem to be close to no camping required again.

I mean, how can you be a First Class scout with only 3 campouts? Maybe by the third one I could set my tent up correctly. First Class? not a chance.

[shortridge]

To further clarify, the books are correct in the rank requirements section. They are incorrect in the various chapters covering those topics.

[mrkstvns]

58 minutes ago, MattR said:

I was a scout from roughly 71 to late 76. I vaguely remember the no camping required. We went anyway.

While Hillcourt was pulled out of retirement to fix things he really needed to fix the culture at national because we seem to be close to no camping required again.

I mean, how can you be a First Class scout with only 3 campouts? Maybe by the third one I could set my tent up correctly. First Class? not a chance.

I was a scout in the same time frame.  Whether or not camping was required, our troop sure did a LOT of it (and much more adventurous trips than my son's troop sometimes embarks on).  I don't recall our troop ever having a "high adventure" trip, but we did cool things like a 65-mile backpacking trip on the Appalachian Trail (which was only a couple hours away by car, and free).  Of course, we were also blessed by a G2SS that wasn't as restrictive and policies that didn't body block every fun activity under the sun....    

Might not have been "required", but I can't imagine any but the lamest, most worthless troops doing a program that wasn't very active and completely outdoors. I'd have quit in a heartbeat!