Interesting observation - rank advancement

[HashTagScouts]

2 minutes ago, prof said:

Seems like the National Organization for Women is giving a board of review to someone who doesn't want to wait the prescribed amount of time, which is a requirement (which NOW and the scout, I guess, didn't understand or think should apply).

Scouts BSA is saying wait until October 2020. I hope that they hold the line on this one.

100% agree with you.  Sorry, but she knowingly is making this into a circus- what Eagle BOR has she ever known has been conducted by any outside group? None. Zero. So it is not official.  Her quote “The Boys Scouts policy right now is they’re not… allowing young women to have boards of review like this until October 2020 even though we’ve already completed the requirements to officially achieve the eagle award.”  No, you have not officially achieved the eagle award- the BSA gave you the path, so follow it or don't.  Sydney wants the official recognition as the first, period.  That is the motivation here.  And, as I have always maintained, it is highly plausible she is nowhere near the first female to do what she did, and I don't hear those other ladies yelling about it.

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, prof said:

This was in my news fed this morning

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/10/15/girls-boy-scouts-eagle-scout/

The article I read including photo of EBOR.

https://patch.com/new-york/southampton/young-woman-takes-next-step-eagle-scout-rank-despite-pushback

"Those present for her Board of Review were NOW-NYC President Sonia Ossorio, Scout Leader Jim Nedelka, Assemblymember Harvey Epstein, NOW-NYC Board Chair, Judi Polson, and Taylor Abbruzzese, MSW, she said."

 

[malraux]

I suspect she knows why national won't give her a EBoR yet, because once you finish the EBoR, you're an eagle, and national want to make sure that no one can claim to be first.

[Jameson76]

24 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The article I read including photo of EBOR.

https://patch.com/new-york/southampton/young-woman-takes-next-step-eagle-scout-rank-despite-pushback

"Those present for her Board of Review were NOW-NYC President Sonia Ossorio, Scout Leader Jim Nedelka, Assemblymember Harvey Epstein, NOW-NYC Board Chair, Judi Polson, and Taylor Abbruzzese, MSW, she said."

 

Not to be all technical, pretty sure some of the basics were not covered.  Maybe the middle on, they all looked over 21, not sure that have an understanding of the rank.

- if conducted at the unit level, at least one district or council representative, who is not affiliated with the unit, must serve as a member. If the unit requests it, more than one may do so.  

- There shall be no fewer than three and no more than six members, all at least 21 years old. They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of the rank and the purpose and importance of the review. This holds true for Eagle boards of review held in any unit, whether troop, crew, or ship.

- A board of review shall not occur until after the local council has verified the application. In the case of a board of review under disputed circumstances, the council must verify all the information that is not in dispute before the board of review is scheduled

[RememberSchiff]

Not sure of the legal options, but can the BSA

  1. obtain a  cease and desist order against the New York assembly member and  others  from holding fraudulent  BOR's?

  2. Revoke memberships of any scouts and scouters knowingly participating in fraudulent  BOR's?

Edited October 17, 2019 by RememberSchiff
ugh typo

[Saltface]

26 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Not sure of the legal options, but can the BSA

  1. obtain a seek and desist order against the New York assembly member and  others  from holding fraudulent  BOR's?

  2. Revoke memberships of any scouts and scouters knowingly participating in fraudulent  BOR's?

I think any attempts by BSA to legally squelch her so-called board of review would just give Ireland more gasoline to throw on her "BSA is systematically oppressing me" fire. If Ireland has no problem with inventing her own illegitimate EBOR and claiming it was done correctly, she might as well just buy a Eagle patch off e-bay. 

In other news, I've awarded myself a sixth bead this morning.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Saltface

[fred8033]

2 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I think any attempts by BSA to legally squelch her so-called board of review would just give Ireland more gasoline to throw on her "BSA is systematically oppressing me" fire. If Ireland has no problem with inventing her own illegitimate EBOR and claiming it was done correctly, she might as well just buy a Eagle patch off e-bay. 

Agreed.  BSA doesn't benefit from fighting this.  Let them have their spotlight.  Move on.  IMHO, it's a petty move by the family and damages all who touch it.  

[mds3d]

She didn't really annoy me before.  She does now.  This "board of review" wasn't very scout like in it's conduction.  She also seems to not understand that her age won't be a factor in 2020.  I really think she just wants to be "first."

 

I really hope the BSA makes a giant deal of the first class of female eagles and intentionally doesn't include her in any of it.  

[RememberSchiff]

15 hours ago, mds3d said:

She didn't really annoy me before.  She does now.  This "board of review" wasn't very scout like in it's conduction.  She also seems to not understand that her age won't be a factor in 2020.  I really think she just wants to be "first."

I really hope the BSA makes a giant deal of the first class of female eagles and intentionally doesn't include her in any of it.  

IMO , it could happen.  Her REAL EBOR  may raise concerns over this and the appeal process takes time. She may miss the first class  of female eagles deadline. 

[ParkMan]

On 10/17/2019 at 12:18 PM, Jameson76 said:

Not to be all technical, pretty sure some of the basics were not covered.  Maybe the middle on, they all looked over 21, not sure that have an understanding of the rank.

- if conducted at the unit level, at least one district or council representative, who is not affiliated with the unit, must serve as a member. If the unit requests it, more than one may do so.  

- There shall be no fewer than three and no more than six members, all at least 21 years old. They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of the rank and the purpose and importance of the review. This holds true for Eagle boards of review held in any unit, whether troop, crew, or ship.

- A board of review shall not occur until after the local council has verified the application. In the case of a board of review under disputed circumstances, the council must verify all the information that is not in dispute before the board of review is scheduled

Agreed. 

It would strike me that these are the key passages:

Quote

- Council advancement committees must determine— and make known—method(s) for conducting Eagle Scout boards of review: whether unit committees or the council or district advancement committees administer them, and also how board chairpersons are selected.

- A board of review shall not occur until after the local council has verified the application.

I have to imagine that the valid ways to delay a EBOR are:

1. The council advancement committee declares the process is that they schedule them and then decide not to schedule one for girls who request them.

2. The council does not verify the application because she is a girl

From the rules I see, these are the only valid ways I could find.

 

[ParkMan]

Sorry to append to my own post.  From the article, I think she's a member of Suffolk County Council.  On their website, they have an Eagle Scout Preparation Guide.  It's at: https://www.sccbsa.org/files/21999/Eagle-Scout-Preparation-Guide

In there, the only reference to Eagle Boards of Review says:

Quote

The service center will forward the Eagle Scout Rank Application and Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook to the district advancement chair. The district advancement committee will then contact your unit committee chair to schedule your board of review.

So I have to imagine that she properly filed the application.  Wither the council isn't forwarding the application or their district advancement committee is following instructions and not scheduling the board of review.

I wasn't aware of rule 8.0.0.2 quoted in the article.  It says:

Quote

8.0.0.2

Boards of Review Must Be Granted When Requirements Are Met

A Scout shall not be denied this opportunity. When a Scout believes that all the requirements for a rank have been completed, including a Scoutmaster conference, a board of review must be granted. Scoutmasters—or councils or districts in the case of the Eagle Scout rank— for example, do not have authority to expect a Scout to request or organize one, or to “defer” the Scout, or to ask the Scout to perform beyond the requirements in order to be granted one. Neither can a board of review be denied or postponed due to issues such as uniforming, payment of dues, participation in fundraising activities, etc.

Later in 8.0.3.0 Particulars for the Eagle Scout Rank

Quote

5. The chair works with all involved parties to schedule the date, time, and place. Boards of review should be scheduled promptly to avoid delaying a Scout’s opportunity to earn Eagle Palms.

 

Her argument appears technically correct.  If the BSA wanted a special exception for girls, then they should have rewritten all of this.