Girl Scouts Barred from a Camporee by the Girl Scouts

[MattR]

Thanks, @malraux. I found page 38. Talk about vague. I highlighted a couple of great quotes. "this may mean [something] should change." It would be clearer if they just said "we might just get really upset, but we don't know yet." Then there is: "[This] creates risks to Girl Scouts." But possibly not girl scouts. Remember when the GSUSA said the BSA wouldn't have a problem if they just did a better job of giving their scouts what they wanted? Karma sucks. I suppose everyone is getting what they deserve. Based on what I've learned about the hiring model in the BSA neither organization understands how to run a large volunteer organization.

 

 

Girl Scout Participation in Activities with Other Scouting

Organizations. The decision by Boy Scouts of America (BSA) to open the Boy Scout program to girls has fundamentally altered the nature of the relationship between BSA and Girl Scouts nationally and locally. Local relationships between BSA and Girl Scout councils that have led to partnerships and joint activities in the past will now expose our membership enrollment and brand to risks. This may mean that the relationship between a council and its BSA counterpart should fundamentally change.

Marketplace Confusion. To protect the integrity of the Girl Scout brand and reinforce our programming as unique, girl only, and best in class, we must endure that we take care that the activities in which girls participate are exclusive to the Girl Scout program, are safe and girl led, and are conducted under the appropriate supervision of Girl Scouts. Participation of Girl Scouts in activities with other scouting organizations creates risks to Girl Scouts. Confusion is in the marketplace regarding the relationship between Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts by the expansion of Boy Scouts to include girls in their programs. Girl Scout participation in Boy Scout activities will increase that confusion and will contribute to the misperception that Girl Scouts has merged, or is somehow interchangeable, with Boy Scouts.

Brand. Associating with organizations who do not have similar brand history, program portfolio, and track record for safety dilutes and tarnishes our brand, and allows Boy Scouts to leverage the reputation of Girl Scouts for their own purposes.

 

[cocomax]

I wonder why 2 other councils would put up the same PDF?
Were these directives disseminated to councils by GSUSA for each council to use and customize and post as they see fit?

GS of the Heart of the South:

http://www.girlscoutshs.org/content/dam/girlscouts-girlscoutshs/documents/volunteers/GSHS VolunteerActionGuide.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2utCijn3PJl4480pFSIB8OMqWKwamSfXeIr7oSwb6_f8hMbCC-XA1T3ME

 

GS of Greater Atlanta

https://www.girlscoutsatl.org/content/dam/girlscouts-girlscoutsatl/documents/GSD-Volunteer-Action-Guide.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2mKKEJmcZ3zxcyuPyQzVTvhNH_sHOLk7WLxyxrTomxZM_O4ezXZrTULEM

 

 

[malraux]

5 minutes ago, cocomax said:

I wonder why 2 other councils would put up the same PDF?
Were these directives disseminated to councils by GSUSA for each council to use and customize and post as they see fit?

GS of the Heart of the South:

http://www.girlscoutshs.org/content/dam/girlscouts-girlscoutshs/documents/volunteers/GSHS VolunteerActionGuide.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2utCijn3PJl4480pFSIB8OMqWKwamSfXeIr7oSwb6_f8hMbCC-XA1T3ME

 

GS of Greater Atlanta

https://www.girlscoutsatl.org/content/dam/girlscouts-girlscoutsatl/documents/GSD-Volunteer-Action-Guide.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2mKKEJmcZ3zxcyuPyQzVTvhNH_sHOLk7WLxyxrTomxZM_O4ezXZrTULEM

 

 

It's basically the same as what my local gsusa council has as well. I'm not familiar enough with their processes to say, but it certainly looks like the ban/strong discouragement from participating in events with other scouting organizations comes from the top.

[NJCubScouter]

15 minutes ago, cocomax said:

Were these directives disseminated to councils by GSUSA for each council to use and customize and post as they see fit?

Well, based on this language the policy certainly seems to be coming from GSUSA National:

Girl Scouts of the USA prohibits events co-sponsored or cobranded with the Boy Scouts.

In fact, it says that a few times.

[NealOnWheels]

I find this phrase curious...

"Associating with organizations who do not have similar brand history, program portfolio, and track record for safety dilutes and tarnishes our brand, and allows Boy Scouts to leverage the reputation of Girl Scouts for their own purposes."

I can understand wanting to maintain their brand identity but this just sounds like they have a superiority complex.

[Cleveland Rocks]

Local Girl Scout councils say things a lot that aren't national policy. Our local GS council has on many occasions stated that it's GSUSA national policy that you aren't allowed to do {insert activity here}, when it's perfectly acceptable to do this, even encouraged, in other councils.

Example: Our local GS council prohibits units and girls from doing those fundraisers at places like Chipotle or Applebee's, where a portion of your check goes towards the cause. They prohibit by saying that it's GSUSA national policy. Yet, a quick search of the surrounding councils will provide you with the facts that they all permit these fundraisers, and many of them advertise them on their websites.

Years ago, they tried saying that it was GSUSA national policy that set the prices of cookies. When people called them on it, saying that (a) other councils were charging different prices, and (b) they called GSUSA and were told that each council sets their own prices, they had to backtrack and change their statement.

The documents cited above are all from local councils. While they may use the same wording from council to council (everyone knows how to copy-and-paste), there is no directive or policy that has come from the GSUSA national organization prohibiting relationships, partnerships and activities with BSA units.

[RememberSchiff]

31 minutes ago, NealOnWheels said:

I find this phrase curious...

"Associating with organizations who do not have similar brand history, program portfolio, and track record for safety dilutes and tarnishes our brand, and allows Boy Scouts to leverage the reputation of Girl Scouts for their own purposes."

Me too. 

 

[elitts]

2 hours ago, NealOnWheels said:

I find this phrase curious...

"Associating with organizations who do not have similar brand history, program portfolio, and track record for safety dilutes and tarnishes our brand, and allows Boy Scouts to leverage the reputation of Girl Scouts for their own purposes."

I can understand wanting to maintain their brand identity but this just sounds like they have a superiority complex.

It's not a superiority complex, it's a deliberate effort to tell people "Don't let your girls join Scouts USA or they might get molested.  Just look at the news!!!"

[mds3d]

2 hours ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

Local Girl Scout councils say things a lot that aren't national policy. Our local GS council has on many occasions stated that it's GSUSA national policy that you aren't allowed to do {insert activity here}, when it's perfectly acceptable to do this, even encouraged, in other councils.

Example: Our local GS council prohibits units and girls from doing those fundraisers at places like Chipotle or Applebee's, where a portion of your check goes towards the cause. They prohibit by saying that it's GSUSA national policy. Yet, a quick search of the surrounding councils will provide you with the facts that they all permit these fundraisers, and many of them advertise them on their websites.

Years ago, they tried saying that it was GSUSA national policy that set the prices of cookies. When people called them on it, saying that (a) other councils were charging different prices, and (b) they called GSUSA and were told that each council sets their own prices, they had to backtrack and change their statement.

The documents cited above are all from local councils. While they may use the same wording from council to council (everyone knows how to copy-and-paste), there is no directive or policy that has come from the GSUSA national organization prohibiting relationships, partnerships and activities with BSA units.

Except there is a document from GSUSA national that says prohibits joint activities just not in so many words. This document has already been posted and appropriately quoted but here is is again.

https://my.girlscouts.org/content/dam/wcf-images/pdf-forms/Volunteer-Essentials.pdf

On page 38 states "we must endure that we take care that the activities in which girls participate are exclusive to the Girl Scout program, are safe and girl led, and are conducted under the appropriate supervision of Girl Scouts."  That sounds like a rule against joint activities as they would not be "exclusive" and not under the "supervision of the Girl Scouts."

Do you think that doesn't constitute an official policy from GSUSA national?

[Liz]

21 minutes ago, mds3d said:

"we must endure that we take care that the activities in which girls participate..."

Am I the only one that wants to "endure that" whomever was in charge of proofreading this publication repent of his or her evil ways and correct the published copy? 

[ParkMan]

3 hours ago, NealOnWheels said:

I find this phrase curious...

"Associating with organizations who do not have similar brand history, program portfolio, and track record for safety dilutes and tarnishes our brand, and allows Boy Scouts to leverage the reputation of Girl Scouts for their own purposes."

I can understand wanting to maintain their brand identity but this just sounds like they have a superiority complex.

I don't know if they have a superiority complex or not.   One could certainly interpret it that way.

It certainly does seem the GSUSA strategy is to try and elevate the GSUSA brand as the premier Scouting program for girls.  They are trying to do it through exclusivty.  I can't imagine it working in a case like this where it's about real families trying to find programs that are exciting for their daughters.

Both the BSA & GSUSA can stand to learn from each other - just as all Scouters do.  Our Cub Scout pack used to regualrly hold joint events with a Girl Scout troop and it was GREAT!  We learned a lot as leaders from each other and it really strengthened all our programs.  That the GSUSA is retreating to it's own group is a real shame.

[Treflienne]

. . . and come September, we will remember our camping days and friendships true . . .

. . . and as the years go by,  I'll think of you and sigh . . .

. . . we've made a promise to always keep, and we'll pray "softly falls" before we sleep. We'll be girl scouts together and when we're gone . . .

[Cleveland Rocks]

2 hours ago, mds3d said:

Except there is a document from GSUSA national that says prohibits joint activities just not in so many words. This document has already been posted and appropriately quoted but here is is again.

https://my.girlscouts.org/content/dam/wcf-images/pdf-forms/Volunteer-Essentials.pdf

On page 38 states "we must endure that we take care that the activities in which girls participate are exclusive to the Girl Scout program, are safe and girl led, and are conducted under the appropriate supervision of Girl Scouts."  That sounds like a rule against joint activities as they would not be "exclusive" and not under the "supervision of the Girl Scouts."

Do you think that doesn't constitute an official policy from GSUSA national?

It's not a document from the national organization. It's from the Girl Scouts of West Central Florida council. Says so on page 6, and is referenced numerous other places within the document.

They may copy-and-paste text from paperwork from the national organization, but each council publishes their own version of the Volunteer Essentials document for their volunteers.

The copy of Volunteer Essentials that our local council produces is 40 pages shorter than this one, and makes no mention of the BSA at all. Our local GSUSA council has placed no restrictions on girls and units doing activities or programs with BSA units.

[Oldscout448]

59 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

. . . and come September, we will remember our camping days and friendships true . . .

. . . and as the years go by,  I'll think of you and sigh . . .

. . . we've made a promise to always keep, and we'll pray "softly falls" before we sleep. We'll be girl scouts together and when we're gone . . .

Darn onions,

Where is this from?

[Treflienne]

This is no longer recognizably the girl scout program in which I grew up.

Scouts BSA is a great program,  but there are things I will miss.

The trefoil with the eagle,  the scout handshake, Thinking Day,  the Brownie Story, "twist me and turn me and show me the elf",  flying-up, "three good turns", "a sister to every girl scout", and the songs, . . . .