Terminology

[Eagledad]

1 minute ago, Treflienne said:

Hi Barry,   I don't know how common the "movement" terminology is in BSA currently,  but it goes way back.   The preface of the 1911 BSA handbook starts "The Boy Scout Movement has become almost universal . . ." and the first chapter of the 1920 Scouting for Girls starts "When Sir Robert Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scout movment in England . . ."

Yes, but it's not an overly used term, and in this day and age of A  LOT of cultural moments, it's easy to misinterupret words with no face.

Barry

[walk in the woods]

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

I just don't get the issue. Maybe some scouters are in the habit of saying "boys" but it's just not what I've ever seen or done, even in my own unit or council, and yet now it has somehow become a stumbling block for scouters talking about scouts. I've always just called scouts "Scouts", and that's all I have ever seen and heard from within my unit and frequently outside of my unit throughout district/council. "Scouts, line up," "Scouts, attention," "Scouts gather 'round," etc. Now for some reason all I hear is "Boys".

I always used the term boys to refer to scouts and scouters.  It was/is common in my area to be used as a term to build esprit de corps.  Perhaps the reason it's all you hear is it's all you're listening for?  Kind of like buying a new car then suddenly noticing every same make/model on the highway.  At our council training event last fall I was admonished by multiple zealots to say youth instead of boys.  I won't be going back to facilitate anything this year.  I have no need for language police.

[Treflienne]

4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Yes, but it's not an overly used term, and in this day and age of A  LOT of cultural moments, it's easy to misinterupret words with no face.

Barry

Absolutely, context matters.   But since @Cburkhardt was talking about scouting,  "the movement" seemed perfectly clear to me.   Anyone else care to comment about how common and recognizable this "movement" terminology is currently in BSA?   I have been learning that in some cases BSA is just different from what I am familiar with in that other branch of the scout movement, WAGGGS.  I keep encountering things that surprise me,  especially in areas that BSA is just different, even different from other WOSM scout organizations.  (Scout sign with hand at shoulder height, or with upper arm horizontal?   Scout sign as part of the scout handshake?  Scout "Oath" rather than "Promise?  The third part of the scout Oath/Promise, symbolized by the third finger of the scout sign is what? 

[Cburkhardt]

My use of "movement" was intended to mean Boy Scouts of America.  That is the organization the4 girls are proud to be part of.

[Eagledad]

Just now, Treflienne said:

Absolutely, context matters.   But since @Cburkhardt was talking about scouting,  "the movement" seemed perfectly clear to me.   Anyone else care to comment about how common and recognizable this "movement" terminology is currently in BSA?   I have been learning that in some cases BSA is just different from what I am familiar with in that other branch of the scout movement, WAGGGS.  I keep encountering things that surprise me,  especially in areas that BSA is just different, even different from other WOSM scout organizations.  (Scout sign with hand at shoulder height, or with upper arm horizontal?   Scout sign as part of the scout handshake?  Scout "Oath" rather than "Promise?  The third part of the scout Oath/Promise, symbolized by the third finger of the scout sign is what? 

OK, I apologized, but you want to rub sand in the wound. Shesh. I could go on, but someone has to be scout-like here. Scout-like we encouraged in the traditional program. 

Barry

[Treflienne]

Hi Barry, 

Sorry, I don't mean to "rub sand in the wound".   I am genuinely interested in learning what the BSA differences are.   Every so often I feel like I am in never-never-land when something that I thought was common to all parts of the scout movment turns out not to be.      I really appreciate that you are helping me learn the BSA way of doing things.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Treflienne
typo

[DuctTape]

It is a question of the speaker's intent. Are they being generally respectful, or is their language choice a means to be passive aggressive.  The speaker *knows* their own intent. The audience infers intent based on context, tone, body language, personal history, etc...

I think the OP is noticing some in their area which appear to be more passive aggressive. Which IMO is unfortunate.

[walk in the woods]

5 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

The audience infers intent based on context, tone, body language, personal history, etc...

and personal biases/filters.  I'm not being critical of firestone, just saying it's common.  The hair on my neck stands up when I hear people talking about boys with special needs or autism.

[AltadenaCraig]

2 hours ago, FireStone said:

I just don't get the issue. Maybe some scouters are in the habit of saying "boys" but it's just not what I've ever seen or done, even in my own unit or council, and yet now it has somehow become a stumbling block for scouters talking about scouts. I've always just called scouts "Scouts", and that's all I have ever seen and heard from within my unit and frequently outside of my unit throughout district/council. "Scouts, line up," "Scouts, attention," "Scouts gather 'round," etc. Now for some reason all I hear is "Boys".

I'm now the girl's Scoutmaster of a linked-troop.  With the boy's troop (for which I was Scoutmaster the past 4 years) we share resources as well as the Troop Committee and meet on the same night.  The SPL's of both troops have agreed to hold combined opening and closing ceremonies while the program and game are regularly separated.  All this to say we (the Scouters) are making a good faith effort to abide by both 1) the letter of the BSA policy as well as 2) the implied spirit of guaranteeing the boys their scouting journey and the girls theirs.

Our arrangement frequently requires identifying boy's troop and the girl's troop separately - and occasionally with a handful of scouts on hand it's easy to slip into "Boy Scouts" and "Girl ..." well, you get the idea.  For us it requires constant vigilence over our language.

[thrifty]

I try to always refer to the scouts as such when in their presence.  I usually call them boys if I'm at home and they can't hear me.  I've known many of them as cubs and I didn't call them cubs at that time but I try to be a little more respectful as they are older.  Same with the girls now.

in March my son was leading the campfire program and said Boy Scouts during his presentation.  He was quickly corrected that it was now Scouts BSA by an ASM that is also participating in our girl troop.  There were no girls at this campout.  My son said it didn't bother him.  I wasn't there but hearing about it bothered me.  I'm sure it was innocent enough but it just rubs me the wrong way.  I don't care what's on the paperwork now or what any leadership says, it's still Boys Scouts for us.  We just had our annual fundraiser for the boy troop and I don't tell our relatives they are coming to a Scout BSA event, they'd just be confused.  My son joined Boy Scouts and has been in Boy Scouts for years.  I will continue to call it Boy Scouts long after he's aged out.  I'll make an effort not to do so around the girls but most people outside of the BSA don't understand Scouts BSA.  I also just say Scouts sometimes now but with the official GSUSA and Scouts BSA girls saying "Scouts" is just as confusing in my opinion.   

[SSScout]

I might refer folks to a previous hashing of the nomenclature  a few months ago:   What's in a name?   

The same issue arises.... what to call the middle age group....  Cubs, Webelos,   (???),   Venturers, Explorers,   Seascouts,,,,,,,, 

We can call them all SCOUTS without fear of remorse.  OR... we could just DROP the last name in the other sections, and use...

Cubs,    Webelos,     SCOUTS,     Venturers,      Explorers,     Seas,,,,,,, 

[RememberSchiff]

Last night, I heard the term "double scouts", where the speaker was referring to scouts who were members of two separate scout groups.  He compared them to double letter high school athletes. Double scouts? I guess every variety has to have its own label.  

Edited April 9, 2019 by RememberSchiff

[FireStone]

4 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Last night, I heard the term "double scouts", where the speaker was referring to scouts who were members of two separate scout groups.  He compared them to double letter high school athletes. Double scouts? I guess every variety has to have its own label.  

Well now we're just trying to thoroughly confuse each other. 🤣

[mrkstvns]

 

4 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Last night, I heard the term "double scouts", where the speaker was referring to scouts who were members of two separate scout groups.  He compared them to double letter high school athletes. Double scouts? I guess every variety has to have its own label.  

Like a Venturer who is also a member of a Boy Scout troop? That's been done for years with no need of a nonsensical adjective of dubious utility.

[PinkPajamas]

I jokingly refer to my daughter as a dual scout, she's in both GSUSA and Cub Scouts. There is a lot of confusion with our extended family and 6 months in most still say she's in Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, despite my constant corrections of "Cub Scouts". If there are people purposely using "boy scouts" as some sort of political stance I suspect they wont be around much longer or will slowly change into the speaking norms of those around them.