Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops

[Cburkhardt]

Dear Friends, including Moderators: 

I agree with those who think we should mainstream discussion of Scouts BSA all-girl troops.  Pigeon-holing us into a politics chapter continues a negative cast on a decision that, while not supported by all of our members, is actually working out quite well.  We should not have to defend against negativism when what we really want to do is discuss how the program is best working in the new units.  Please make the change.  

I've been the senior volunteer at the Unit, District, Council (major metropolitan) and Area levels, and served on national and council committees for over 30 years.  I've formed over 20 units in my time.  I "retired" from all of that and am now a Scoutmaster of a 25-member all-girl troop in an urban area with a committee of 15.  I thought I had seen it all until we added these all-girl Scouts BSA units.  In my opinion this is the best enhancement to our ability to serve young people over the last 20 years.  I was on camp staff for a few years in my youth, and the kind of cutting and unrelenting negativism from those who do not appear to be on the front lines of this development sound like a Scoutmaster named Igor we saw during first period each year.  He could never be satisfied with anything the camp staff did because "national" and the "council" had "ruined" the Scouting program of his 1940/50's youth.  We had - gasp - propane in the patrol kitchens, were shifting to "ugly" tan shirts, and somewhere at some other chartered organization there were now girls doing things in Exploring.  Yes, even though he had no obligation to involve himself with a female Explorer Post, the knowledge that a BSA group out there included young women had indeed ruined his experience of operating his all-boy Troop.  Folks, there are always changes to our program and there will always be people who claim that those changes have ruined what was better or perfect before.  In the 50's it was the - gasp - welcoming of African-American Scouts into Troops.  Imagine that -- Scouting "ruined" way back then.  These people will always be with us and there is nothing we can do about that.  But there is one thing I have learned about this through my years as a Scout and my 30 years as a unit/council/national Scouter.  It is the optimists and cheerleaders who make Scouting happen and will always be the future and leaders of our movement.  

I urge the moderators to begin a program thread on Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops and prohibit political discussions on that thread.  Let's get on with helping the 1,800 new Scoutmasters, Troop Committee Chairs and Troop Committees out there.  When was the last time we actually had 1,800 new Troops in this movement?  Yes, it was back in Igor's youth -- in the 40s and 50s.  I believe the good times are returning because now everyone is welcome..   

 

[RememberSchiff]

26 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Dear Friends, including Moderators: 

I urge the moderators to begin a program thread on Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops and prohibit political discussions on that thread.  Let's get on with helping the 1,800 new Scoutmasters, Troop Committee Chairs and Troop Committees out there.  When was the last time we actually had 1,800 new Troops in this movement?  Yes, it was back in Igor's youth -- in the 40s and 50s.  I believe the good times are returning because now everyone is welcome..   

As per December 4, 2018  Moderator Policy in Forum Support & Announcements 

An Original Poster (OP) can  state in that first post "Only on-topic responses, please." Off-topic responses will then be moved or deleted by moderators. 

Consider so stated.  Any member could have done this. If we mods miss an off-topic response, use Report Post function in upper right corner of post to bring to our attention.

Only on-topic responses, please in this thread.

RS

@MattR , @desertrat77 , @John-in-KC , @NJCubScouter

[qwazse]

@Cburkhardt

[qwazse]

Please ignore my previous reply. The editor jammed when I tried to tag the OP in the message.

I strongly support using the existing forums and tagging topics with relevant labels as needed. Topics about implementation -- regardless of who's doing the implementing -- belong in Open Program, Patrol Method, Advancement, or Training. Chances are, whatever a scouter is doing to roll out a girl troop, some other scouter is doing the same to roll out a boy troop. Furthermore, those of us with district or council responsibilities need to know what a girl troop is going through ... including when scouters throw shade at it ... because we will have these young women or their leaders around our campfire soon.

Moreover, we also have to deal with the public. And it is very helpful being able to back up any reply we make with anecdotes from strangers on the internet. Especially anecdotes that aren't sanitized by national's marketing machine.

Take a cue from the Venturing forum. It is rarely used (even by venturers and sea scouts) because most of the stuff to deal with venturing has application in other forums.

[HelpfulTracks]

3 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

I urge the moderators to begin a program thread on Scouts BSA implementation for girl troops and prohibit political discussions on that thread.  Let's get on with helping the 1,800 new Scoutmasters, Troop Committee Chairs and Troop Committees out there.  When was the last time we actually had 1,800 new Troops in this movement?  Yes, it was back in Igor's youth -- in the 40s and 50s.  I believe the good times are returning because now everyone is welcome..   

 

I up voted your post because I agree with almost all of it. 

The one point I disagree with is a new forum or section. Both G-Troops and B-Troops issues can and should be covered in the existing framework, because it is all Scouts BSA. 

Will there be issues unique to girls or caused by the presence of girls? Certainly, but in the scope of scouting, I think they are minor and can be handled in the current structure, just like we are doing in the real world away from this site. 

Other than that, bravo. There will always be curmudgeons that don't like change, regardless of the change. I cannot say I have approved of all of the changes, but I still love and support this program and will move forward to do what I have always done, which is to help develop youth. We can hope others follow our example.

[Treflienne]

1 hour ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Will there be issues unique to girls or caused by the presence of girls?

One new issue, caused by the presence of girls, is the linked troop structure.   While I am very pleased to hear about @Cburkhardt's success with a non linked troop,   for those of us with small girls' troops in not-quite-so-densely populated areas, and with scouters (parents of the girls) who don't have the years of experience working with BSA scout troops,   the mentoring that is available from the linked boys' troops is invaluable.    But that raises lots of new questions about best practises:  Just how to structure the linkage?   Do we do any activities jointly or all separately?  Which ones?   Do individual adults on the committee focus on one troop or the other, or  on both?   Etc. Etc.   Hearing about other troops experiences (good and bad) would be helpful.  

[reeddma]

In our linked troop structure, the boy troop provides two Troop Guides (an Eagle and Life, both of which have been TGs before) to assist the girl troop for the next few months or until they send them back.

[ValleyBoy]

2 hours ago, Treflienne said:

One new issue, caused by the presence of girls, is the linked troop structure.   While I am very pleased to hear about @Cburkhardt's success with a non linked troop,   for those of us with small girls' troops in not-quite-so-densely populated areas, and with scouters (parents of the girls) who don't have the years of experience working with BSA scout troops,   the mentoring that is available from the linked boys' troops is invaluable.    But that raises lots of new questions about best practises:  Just how to structure the linkage?   Do we do any activities jointly or all separately?  Which ones?   Do individual adults on the committee focus on one troop or the other, or  on both?   Etc. Etc.   Hearing about other troops experiences (good and bad) would be helpful.  

First, I am in no way against Girls being Scouts inside the program.  I am against and do not in no way like the term linked troops.  As far as the question about the committee each of the troops have there own committee even though  as in your case the members of both committee's might be the same.  If a person is a member of both troops committee they should be  focused on both troops and show NO FAVORTISM of one troop over the other.  if they show favoritism to one troop over the other that they are a member of the committee they need to remove there self as a member of that committee.  It is the same for  Pack and Troops that share the same charter organization.  Each is there own separate unit and should be treated as such. 

To the question of activities each unit should have there own  since they are separate Troops and in reality all they should have in common is the same CO.  Do not fall in the trap of thinking that just because the troop is small due to your location that the troop can not be a good scout troop.  This goes for both troops of boys and also for troops of girls.    Is it all right to have some join activities such as a join camping trip,  YES, but remember it is two separate troops that are on the trip and that each has its own youth leadership that have to work together as equals.  Just and FYI my troop for the past 4 years has attended summer camp with another local troop because of the issue of two deep leadership for summer camp.  We have also had several join camping trips with this same troop.  The stories us adults could tell around a campfire about join camping trips with another troop.  The stories are all good with nothing bad that could not be told in mixed company. 

As far as scouters who do not have the experience working with a BSA scout troop it is not rocket science.  Visit other troops be a fly on the wall, talk to other unit leaders on forums such as this one, or at roundtable or other local district or council activities.

[Treflienne]

33 minutes ago, ValleyBoy said:

If a person is a member of both troops committee they should be  focused on both troops and show NO FAVORTISM of one troop over the other. 

To be clear, I am not talking about favoritism, I am talking about specialization in roles.    (And even with a non-linked troop, how many roles a committee member takes on may vary with the size of the committee.)

[Liz]

39 minutes ago, ValleyBoy said:

 I am against and do not in no way like the term linked troops.  As far as the question about the committee each of the troops have there own committee even though  as in your case the members of both committee's might be the same. 

"A chartered organization may also have “linked troops,” which means a shared troop committee with separate troops for boys and for girls." 

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2018/10/hello-scouts-bsa/

So, nope. Same committee overseeing both troops. Not just the same people sitting on two committees. 

Back to your regularly scheduled forum thread...

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, Liz said:

"A chartered organization may also have “linked troops,” which means a shared troop committee with separate troops for boys and for girls." 

That is much harder than it sounds and requires dedicated adults. Even harder are two dedicated CCs and SMs. Don’t just ask for volunteers, seek out talented adults and personally recruit them. 

Barry

[Liz]

20 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

That is much harder than it sounds and requires dedicated adults. Even harder are two dedicated CCs and SMs. Don’t just ask for volunteers, seek out talented adults and personally recruit them. 

Barry

I'm not giving an opinion on the practicality of it. Simply providing clarification since it was stated above that with linked troops there are two separate committees even if the members who sit on each committee are the same people. That is a misunderstanding of the definition of a linked troop. 

A CO *may* have two completely separate troops with two separate committees in the same way that they have a separate committee for a pack and one for a troop and/or a crew or what have you, but that is not a "linked" troop that is just two different units chartered by the same organization. 

[ValleyBoy]

3 hours ago, Liz said:

"A chartered organization may also have “linked troops,” which means a shared troop committee with separate troops for boys and for girls." 

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2018/10/hello-scouts-bsa/

So, nope. Same committee overseeing both troops. Not just the same people sitting on two committees. 

Back to your regularly scheduled forum thread...

Thanks for sharing the link.  I was not aware that the troop's could use the same number.  Now I can see where with the start up of the new girl troops that by having the same committee would make it easier to  get the new girl unit started.  My guess would be that each of the two troops have a separate charter.  My question would be since both troops have the same CO do they have to have the same  committee. The reason i ask this question is that i know that in the past a Pack and a Troop with the same CO could have have the same adults registered  CC and unit committee members.  I also know that this is not the ideal situation.

I still do not like the term linked troops.  But I do understand why the term is being used. 

[Cburkhardt]

Whether the committee is a big single committee using the linked format or effectively separate, the object is the same — to manage the incoming number of Scouts caused by this enhanced program.  The program is identical, but the implementation has some differences.  One thing we are experiencing is a greater tendency for girls to bring in their “best friends” into the troop.  Girls are also crazy-proud of their uniforms beyond what I have experienced in Boy troops.  We are making sure to emphasize those things.  I just would not get hung up on the structure behind the troop operation.  

Here is a nice program we will do.  In June we are going to have a big family campout for our girls and their families at our council camp.  We will have a Court of Honor for achievements since Feb. 1.  I expect several tenderfoot awards — and this is simply natural interest on the part of the girls.  They are going to have a massive cookout on Saturday night they will prepare for the parents.

Another  surprising result is that we are getting a number of 14-year-olds expressing interest in joining what their younger sisters and friends have already joined.  We have decided for now to place them into our three existing patrols, but we will probably need an older girl patrol this fall.

We are going to adopt the urban neighborhood around our church CO, and The City will erect signs with our troop name and CO.  We will do some spring cleaning in the neighborhood in uniform to let people know we are here.  Showing service to our CO and City will set the right tone.

[willray]

On 4/5/2019 at 5:36 PM, Liz said:

"A chartered organization may also have “linked troops,” which means a shared troop committee with separate troops for boys and for girls." 

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2018/10/hello-scouts-bsa/

So, nope. Same committee overseeing both troops. Not just the same people sitting on two committees. 

Back to your regularly scheduled forum thread...

With the proviso that even for a Linked Troops model, BSA still requires that the committee members submit a separate Adult application to be a member of the 2nd troop's committee (even though it's the same committee).  As a result, there appears to be no actual paperwork difference between two "Linked Troops that share a committee", and two "not Linked Troops that have separate committees with all the same individuals on them".

Somehow, to me, this seems daft.

Edited April 17, 2019 by willray