CC and COR is the same person

[KLB]

We have been struggling lately within our pack. Myself and another parent have stepped up to fundraise. We have hit multiple brick walls in the form of our CC who also happens to be the COR. She dismisses all ideas only later to execute the same ideas herself. She does not communicate with parents or leaders. Refuses to allow anyone other than herself to visit the scout shop on behalf of the pack for badges/belt loops etc. she creates hostility and an unfriendly environment to the point our boys are enjoying the scouting experience much less. What course of action is there since she holds both positions within our pack? Also, she does not have a child in the pack. Also hold position within the Boy Scout troop along with her husband. 

[RememberSchiff]

@KLB welcome to scouter.com

[qwazse]

@KLB, welcome to the forums. The only administrative course of action is to talk to the CO's institution head (IH) and ask for a change in leadership. Perhaps you could bring the name of someone who you all would like as the pack's CC.

The interpersonal course of action is as a committee to confront this person and vote that the CM be directly responsible for purchasing pack awards; the treasurer be responsible for pack finances, secretary for pack minutes, etc ... with both reporting on their activities at pack committee meetings. She can still refuse. But that would be one more charge that you could lay before the IH.

Are you all attending district roundtables? That's another great way to learn from the experiences of other packs.

[Jameson76]

That is a tough road ahead

Assuming the CC/COR also is embedded within your CO to some degree.  While the correct course of action is to work with the IH, they may not actually have any real concern as to what is going on with the unit.  Challenge is the IH appoints the COR, so you are into some circular logic with both COR and CC being the same person

1) The Chartered Organization Representative (COR) is the direct contact between the unit and the Chartered Organization. This individual is also the organization's contact with the District Committee and the Local Council. The chartered organization representative may become a member of the district committee and is a voting member of the council. If the chartered organization has more than one unit, one representative serves them all. The Chartered Organization Representative appoints the Unit Committee Chair.

2) The Troop Committee Chair is appointed by the chartered organization and registered as an adult leader of the BSA.  

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Jameson76

[sst3rd]

KLB,

I mean this seriously, go find another Pack. NOW. This will not change, as this person holds all of the cards, and she knows it. When she sees scouts and families leaving, she won't have to wonder why. It's the only way to make the point. And if she says to come back and she'll change, don't buy it. Life's too short to have to deal with this. Find a good Pack for all to enjoy. I'm sure they'll want your help and support.

sst3rd

[mrkstvns]

7 minutes ago, sst3rd said:

I mean this seriously, go find another Pack. NOW. This will not change, as this person holds all of the cards, and she knows it. When she sees scouts and families leaving, she won't have to wonder why. It's the only way to make the point. And if she says to come back and she'll change, don't buy it. Life's too short to have to deal with this. Find a good Pack for all to enjoy. I'm sure they'll want your help and support.

Kind of hate to suggest giving up, but this really is the most practical approach. 

Might want to also drop a line to the COR's "boss" (like pastor of the CO church, or grand poo-bah of the Water Buffalo Lodge, letting them know that their COR is doing them no service). Ditto to local scout executive. The SE will claim to be powerless, but he should know that there are good reasons for the pack's imminent demise.

It might not actually get the COR/CC their richly deserved pink slip, but doing nothing is 100% guaranteed to do nothing.

[KLB]

I am really appreciative for all your responses. I have visited with another pack who coincidentally some of our boys switched to lasted year. Everyone seems to think that the CC and COR should definitely be different people. Council says it’s permitted. I feel as though it is a conflict with one person making all the decisions. I am currently trying to rally a couple more parents to join the committe. However a vote out won’t do any good since she as the COR can veto it! We have little to no recruitment, there’s no promotion locally or on social media. We are in a small town and the pack should really be at the center of activities. It isn’t. I’ve racked my brain and busted my butt so that my son (tiger this year) and the other boys have a positive and worthwhile experience. After our older boys crossed over, our pack consists of 12 kids. I would be happy if it dissolved at this point so that those who are actually scout minded may rebuild. Next closest pack is 30 minutes away. I’m guessing this shouldn’t be this frustrating!

[HashTagScouts]

Being your Pack is that small, and you mention that other parents are feeling frustrated, is finding another CO an option? Then you can all go en masse to creating a new unit.  There is no rule you have to be chartered to a CO with a troop attached to it. 

[qwazse]

By "vote" I mean that the committee tells the CC that they want a change of leadership because responsibility and accountability is not being shared uniformly. She can say "no." But if she does, you could inform the IH of that fact.

Then you could take your son to the other pack, or start a new one if there's a willing CO.

[Jameson76]

26 minutes ago, KLB said:

I am currently trying to rally a couple more parents to join the committe. However a vote out won’t do any good since she as the COR can veto it! 

Sadly in your case, that is correct.  Votes would be symbolic at best.  The committee does not "elect" the CC, that is an appointed (or in you specific case anointed) position.  Unless the COR is good with the change, there is little the vote would do but further cause issues.  I would say the meeting between the COR and CC as they discuss the vote could be entertaining.

As others have said the best course of action may be to move on to another pack or form a new one.  Unless the COR / CC / Chief cook and bottle washer wishes to voluntarily move aside, you are stuck.  Even if you got a new CC the former CC (now only COR) could still exert undue influence because it seems that control is what they want

[SSScout]

Howdy, KLB.  Thank you for seeing the problem and being able to define it so well.

Here is the idea:  "The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up"   and sometime in the past, your COR /CO showed up when few (if anyone ) else showed up. 

Good Scouting is a cooperative effort, not a dictatorial effort.  Experience and tradition count large amounts, but when only one "allows" themselves to be "everyone" ("because no one else knows how to best do it !!!"), eventually  the Scouts lose. 

Now, if you would save your unit from bleeding Scouts( a poor metaphor , to be sure, but I think you know what I mean), you must gather your other parents and go to your IH and arrange to meet with him/her and the COR/CO and confront the reality with them.  Deal with ONLY the facts and actual activities. Call no names,  avoid emotionality,   The COR/CO will  do one of two things: 1)  See the need to step back and allow others to HELP, or, 2) claim "you ungrateful wretches" have ruined everything and leave.... ( pity the poor Troop she is associated with).  

In the mean time, smile and wave as you go by