I'm Just About Ready to Quit

[kenk]

I've written and deleted several posts. I'm finding it very hard to voice my thoughts here.

 

I'm just about ready to throw in the towel on Scouting. I'm tired of the parents who are too lazy to be involved, to read handouts, or to listen to announcements.

 

My son has a mild form of Asperger's Syndrome, which means that he struggles with social skills and seems "odd" to other kids. Unfortunately that makes him a magnet to bullies. I agreed to be a Den Leader, and recently Cubmaster, in the hopes of being there to help my son out in social situations.

 

Last week kids started playing keep away with my son's favorite hat ultimately throwing it out of the bus on the way to Cub Scout Day Camp. He was devistated.

 

Last month at the Pack's parent/son overnight, several of the boys in our den (who have made it clear throughout the year that they don't like him) were constantly yelling at hime and so mean to him that he gave up trying to play with them and spent the free time wondering around by himself and sitting with the adults.

 

He's just entering Webelos, which means we are starting to think about becoming a Boy Scout. Quite frankly, after just a little exposure to several local troops (mostly during the overnight campouts) I just can't see him surviving in the that environment. Like the Cub Scout age boys, the younger Boy Scouts seem very agressive, competitive, and mean-spirited.

 

I spend soooo much time preping for den activities and pack activities when I think I should be devoting that time to my own kids and family. Why should I spend so much time teaching & entertaining other people's kids when their parents won't be involved???

 

Alright I'm sending this one. I know I'm not getting my feelings across well, but mabye you get the idea.

[Jason OK]

Kenk,

 

I can only imagine the time you're going through. The only "Good" advice "I" can give you is to ask the Lords help. I know it sounds like the wrong answer but Christ can give you and your boy comfort.

In the mean time if you and your boy can work privately together on Scouting knowledge ....he might be able to impress the other boys thus, gaining their respect. Christ can help lead your way. When I pray and do not have anything specific to pray for I like to pray for wisdom and the Holy Spirit. If you would like some scripture to read PM me. I will gladly show you. Remember.....this is what "I" would do.

[wojauwe]

 

kenk,

Keep looking for a troop that may be a good fit.Talk to the leadership about your son's special situation and go for unit that has most understanding people.

I'd suggest that when you enter troop register as a commitee member and just be an active parent helping on camping trips so that your energy isn't taken too much away from your son.

Middle school age boys can be pretty mean.If they are given the right role models and training they do tend to grow out of it.

Jason is right about helping son to develope scout skills to

show his strengths.

Another thing that may be helpfull would be talking to troop about finding someone who could give presentation on your son's problem.This could be worked into troop sponsorship of

workshop on Disabilities awareness Merit Badge.

It's going to be hard for your son wherever he encounters boys in this age group.They tend to strike out at those whom they don't understand.At least in a well run troop with suportive adults there is a better chance of influencing the growth of the boys he is around.

The Pack is obviously not working as well as it should.Scouting should be a safe haven.The teasing and bullying should be stifled as soon as it rears it's ugly head.

In my ASM position I'm very firm about stopping any poking or picking no matter how innocent.It's so easy for this kind of thing to get out of control.

AS a WEBELOS leader I had 6 out of 9 boys in my den who were ADD.So it was very important that there be a strong structure to program.

 

[Bob White]

Wojauwe's answer is ,as Eamomm might say "spot on".

 

Nicely done wojauwe.

[Fuzzy Bear]

If you quit, what are you considering as an alternative?

Does your son wish to remain in Scouting?

What goals has he set for himself?

Where does he want to be in five years?

 

Greg was a severally disabled Scout in our den. We were careful to include him until the other Scouts made it part of their routine. Greg was the last to complete the Arrow of Light and then only with his family's cooperation. He did not understand or learn at the same rate but he could and did learn.

 

The ideals of Scouting were not the only thing that we learned but they were always a part of every meeting. What does it mean to do your best? I Fuzzy Bear promise to do my best...

We learned what it meant to do your best at every meeting. We did not create the Special Olympics for Greg in our Den but we modified some of the activities to include him. When we had finished, there was a kind of a pride in what we each had done, including Greg. Each of us had benefited because there was not just a bunch of talk about doing our best we had also lived it because Greg had helped each of us to do our best.

 

His entire family showed up at the Bridging.

 

FB

 

[gsmom]

Hello kenk,

 

I feel very strongly about bullying. The bullying behavior directed at your son is outrageous and unacceptable whether or not he has a disability. Where was the bus driver when all this was happening? I would imagine the behavior you describe is a safety hazard at minimum. Were any of these kids disciplined?

 

Here are some replies to a recent article in the New York Times about bullying at camp, and how some camps are handling it. The link to the article itself is found following the letters. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/05/opinion/L05BULL.html

 

If you cannot get a serious response from the adults involved in your situation, in my opinion you should find another troop for your son, and explain to the current troop why you are leaving.

 

All the best to you and your son.

 

gsmom

[OldGreyEagle]

Kenk,

 

Stick it out, find a troop that understands. I know they exist, I am in one. Our senior patrol leader for last year summer camp is a kid who is half blind, has Cerbral Palsy and has to use a walker or wheelchair for mobility. He was elected SPL not because of his challenges, or despite them, but because the kids knew he was the best choice. We have two first year scouts who also use walkers or the arm supported crutches thing. We also have scouts who have mental/emotional problems. A few of them have state assigned aides who attend meetings. BTW, we also have a whole bunch of "otherwise" normal (whatever that is) scouts.

 

Now, I know this is a unique group. Its all made possible by our Committee Chair who is a pediatrician and mother of two Eagle scouts. She reccommends scouting to her patients as a physical activity and also for its socilization opportunites. I am so glad I found them. My son was born with epispadias, thats an imcomplete formation of the urinary system. There are many forms, anywhere from not having the lower half of the abdomen closed to tiny imperfections. Well, my son was born without a penis. Male yes, but just an opning and some tissue that looked like a split hot dog. After tests to determine sex, (yes, he is a male) an operation was done to surgically construct a penis when he was 6 months old. The problem was without the necessary muscles in the penis, he could never control his bladder, he just leaked urine all the time which was alright as a baby and toddler, but as he got older, it wasnt as accpetable. He was also diagnosed as dyslexic and ADD. Around ages 7-8 he had his ureters transplanted from his bladder to his colon so he would urinate/defecate stool at the same time. This gave him much better control, but if he laughed or was startled, he would have an "Accident". When we first joined the troop, he would also tent with me, I carried all the necessary supplies as well as a portable toilet that he would use. I had it so if it were to be discovered, it would be mine. Well he caught some heck because he was always with daddy. Eventually at age 13 he had a (this is for boleta)appendicovesicostomy (hope I got this right) The surgeons took his ureters off his colon and put them back on the bladder, augmented it with colon tissue and then took his appendix and connected it to the new bladder and the outside abdomen wall. He now urinates by passing a catheter (10 french Doc) through the stoma into the bladder. He sleeps at night with a catheter in his bladder attached to a drainage bag. He tented with me a few times before he said, " I am who I am" and joined the troop. Showing them the bag. He never had a problem, or none that I heard about.

 

He is Add, Dyslexic and has disfluencies, but he was elected SPL as well. HE was patrol leader to the 2001 Naitonal Jamboree, on staff at council JLTC for two years and an Eagle scout with a second bronze palm.

 

In the early days, I and he were ready to quit more than a few times, while his peers came to accept him, the older scouts werent to sure. But I am an old Eagle and I wanted him to see all the benefits of the program. We stuck it out, and both are glad we did. We attended a Naitonal Jamboree together, even if he did need two footlockers, one full of supplies, we have been white water rafting in Maine, been to Gettysburg, Antietam and a whole bunch of other places. Do not quit, move around if you have to. You can find accptance, you may have to be his advocate as I am sure you are now.

 

In the end, the scouts will mirror the behavior of the adults (that adult association thing, its pretty powerful stuff). You will find a troop that accepts people for who they are, it can be done.

[Eamonn]

Can't help thinking that when I read some of what has been posted just how lucky I am.

Many thanks OGE for your posting.

Kenk, I wish that I had some wise words or could tell you that the answer is in the big book of Scouting (Yes there are books the deal with Scouts with disabilities.)Sad to say I don't. I am unsure if any of the support groups out there deal with his matter.

I agree with wojauwe.

My only advise is for you to keep your chin up and Do Your Best.

Eamonn.

[Laurie]

I'm with the others Kenk, hang in there. I'm so sorry for the troubles your son is having now with the other kids. Somehow in Scouts that's just so sad to me. I'm with OGE on this in respect to the adult leadership. Get to know some leaders in the troops, and find out how they deal with different issues. I have a nephew who has had cancer for the past 4 1/2 years now, and he has remained in Cubs while losing his hearing and then his ability to walk but never his spirit. He lost his hair, got real thin, then got a full face, and has continued to change in appearance. Because he can't hear well in groups, even with 2 hearing aids which are visible, he often can't respond either. There are times when he had little quirks due to his treatments. The kids were intimidated by this, but it was the adults who made the difference. They spoke openly about the needs of this young boy, and then my sister and brother-in-law spoke to the boys. Bit by bit, the kids began to find ways to communicate. They have a good time. The kids cared, but they needed adult guidance. He is sure to face many challenges going into a troop, but he's going for it, and the adult leadership, which my family is part of, is behind him. When they cheer him on, the kids cheer him on. You can find this too. Please keep looking. What your son is experiencing now is not Scouting at its finest.

 

Please don't be offended at this, but have you thought of remaining den leader instead of CM in order to spend more time with your son during pack meetings too? Or don't you think that would make a difference?

 

One other thought. I have found our Unit Commissioner to be a valuable asset to me personally as I serve as CM. We have become friends. He understands Scouting well, though he's the first to admit that he doesn't know it all. What he does is to offer great advice when asked, to be quietly supportive, to simply be there. If you have one you can talk to, I'd see (1) what advice he/she may offer and (2) if they can help you to get in touch with troops as you look ahead.

[kenk]

Thanks all for your words of encouragement, advice, and hope.

 

Some thoughts came to mind:

 

1-One of my son's problems is that his issues are so mild that to others he appears just "odd". I've often told his teachers that he'd almost be better off if his issues were more severe. I do think that I need to sit down with the den and discuss his Asperger's with them so they understand why he acts the way he does.

 

2-The Boy Scout and Venturing staff at our Cub Scout Day Camp were (are) very impressive. To me they appear to be a mix of all types of personalities - some has speech problems, others kind of geeky, and some were jocks, BUT all of them were fantastic young men and women that prove that Scouting works.

 

3-I think I was mixing my own frustration with inactive parents with the bullying issue. I need to adjust my attitude on that issue. Even if I can teach just a few boys - including my own son - then I suppose it is more than worthwhile. I do need to put my son's needs first though.

 

My own dad was the Scoutmaster when I was a boy, and I vividly recall be frustrated that I had to "share" my dad with so many other boys. Now that I looked back though, in a way he was like a father to many of those young men. I'm sure they think of him with great fondness. Regardless, I do wish we'd had more one-on-one time together. My own goal is to NOT be a Scoutmaster, but still be able to be very involved in the troop in order to be there for my son.

 

By the way, I do try to keep as long a "leash" as possible with my son so that he can get some independence and learn some lessons. That was why I had him ride the bus instead of be in the car with me on the way to day camp. I guess I'm still learning what he can handle and what he can't.

 

Thanks again everyone. A great forum. My son enjoys Scouting and so do I.

[LauraT7]

You did get some great answers -

 

as a scouting parent of an ADHD/gifted boy who is also "odd" - I can relate. Jon doesn't 'seem' to be handicapped, but in social skills and maturity, he often is seen as 'different' or 'odd' by his peers.

 

We searched for a troop that is understanding of differences. Our troop has a number of mild and not-so-mild 'special needs' kids. And while there has been some teasing, for the most part, the adults are real quick to nip it in the bud and not let the boys get away with that stuff. it just isn't what scouting is all about.

 

I won't say we have booted anyone who is overly mean or competitive, but I have noticed that those boys who are particularly 'aggressive' in their taunting, either learn to stop, or they choose to leave scouting or go to another troop. it just is not tolerated in our troop - certainly not in troop activities, and even OUTSIDE of the troop - at school, etc. Troop members must, at a minimum, be civil to other troop members, or the SM will hear about it and it WILL affect him passing them on their 'Scout Spirit" and he WILL have a talk with them. it really works.

 

I have to relate a small part of a story OGE once told on his son - just to show what a confident and self assured young man OGE has raised, despite his difficulties. I don't remember why the boys in his troop were acting up on a campout, but they were, and as SPL it was up to this young man to 'settle' them. After a few 'reminders' to quiet down - the SPL came in and reminded them that "you better quiet down! I've got a Cath bag and I KNOW how to use it!" after that - it was quiet as can be! LOL!

 

how many boys do you know who have that much self confidence and security? I'd say he and his dad and his troop were one great group of guys!

 

laura

[AnneinMpls]

Hi Kenk,

I've appreciated your posts greatly! It's a great help to know we are ot alone: my kiddo has Aspergers. About 50% of the time she appears like a slightly hyper totally outgoing superfriendly kid, about 40% of the time an absent-minded professor, and 10% of the time either extremely bossy or incredibly touchy and prone to screaming meltdowns. Girl Scouting has been her most normalizing environment: she's developed close friendships within which she can begin to figure out the difference between kids being mean and "just teasing", learned to handle differing styles of adult leaders, and gotten lots of opportunities to do things other than sit and read a book all day Tree-climbing comes to mind...

From time to time she'll be with some new kids who don't really "get" her. Kids tend to bother/tease/bully anyone they don't understand - they're trying to get a respohnse from them to try to figure them out (not to mention it can be "fun"...) This is when we have a lil sit-down and I generally say something like this: You know how different kids are smart at different things, and have trouble with other things? (everybody nods - they can all relate to this) Woody's really smart at stuff like math (at this point everybody's chiming in about how they've seen her figure the tax or try to get them to play some game she's made up with prime numbers...and others chime in talking about how they have a lot of trouble with math or about how mean their math teacher is or...you get the picture) Woody has a really hard time figuring out stuff like whether someone is a little bit annoyed or really really mad, or whether you're just teasing or if you're serious. Something about this approach to talking about it just clicks well with other kids - they take it and run with it - the basic message they get is that everybody's good at something, everybody has trouble with something.

I will say, I've had to let go of the Norman Rockwell image to some extent - as much as I've wanted to have a large troop it's not happening yet - not every family is going to like being a part of a troop where differences are acceptable. I've had families leave because of our racial diversity. I've had families leave because a lot of our kids are poor. And I've had families leave because of my kiddo but they surely don't say so So we end up with a group that is perhaps a lil more eccentric than your usual group of Scouts. In the end I think the ones who stay get more out of it.

It does sound like maybe the other leaders in your pack are real onboard with encouraging their scouts to accept your son or others who stand out from the crowd. This might be an area to explore a bit and to keep in mind as you look for a Boy Scout troop. Maybe find one where others have gone before and laid the groundwork.

I think you're also spot on when you said you seemed to be mixing two different issues - this happens when stress goes up. The issues are somewhat related - it might be a lil tougher to get parents onboard because of your son's difficulties but as has been suggested, prayer is a real help here.

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

[PNScouter]

kenk,

 

I have a feel for what you are going through except from the other end. I am an ASM in a troop that has a boy with Asperger's. It is a tough challange for a troop to deal with a kid with this type of disability. We have not been totally successful in incorporating this young man into our troop and I believe this is due to a lack of knowledge of Asperger's. We need to educate our Adults and youth and I think we will be able to help this guy. You should find a troop that is willing to learn (adults and youth) what the Asperger's is and how to deal with it before the young man joins. The troop needs to be prepared. Don't quit, communicate and educate and you just may find the right troop to help your son learn how to act socially and begin to deal with life away from mom and dad.

[red feather]

Bump to all the good advice. Wujauwe-- as BW said "spot on"

 

One of the best memories I have as a young scout many moons ago is learning to work with a Troop that only had scouts that had disabilities of some sort. Taught me probably more that I was able to teach them.

 

Hang in there

 

yis

[Jason OK]

LauraT7,

 

If you haven't already read the book "Driven to Distraction"...well I highly recommend it.