Help. Little advancement.

[Eagledad]

On 3/8/2019 at 12:00 PM, malraux said:

The choice of which troop to cross over into should be the choice of the youth, not the parent (though parents can guide that choice). If your son really wants to go to a different troop, then it isn't your job to change his mind. If the other troop is doing fun things with lots of youth, then it isn't your job to tell him to go with the boring troop.

This reply doesn't really apply to the OP, but this is one of the few times where I disagree with malraux.

At my first Blue and Gold as a CM, I went over to talk to the two Webelos dens who were crossing over that night. Most all the scouts were going to one troop. I asked the scouts why they chose that troop, and the general answer was that troop had the best game of all the troop meetings they visited. A year later I checked and 90% of those scouts had dropped out.

I believe adults should have at least 50% participation in finding a troop. There should be a family discussion along with the Den Leader, but sons and parents have two different objectives for joining a troop. Both should be considered. While malraux gives a good example of why the parent needs to listen to the son, my experience is his example is generally the opposite. The Webelos doesn't see the whole program because he is focused on the few minutes of the visit. Make the choice a family decision, otherwise the risk are huge.

Barry

[malraux]

I can be more disagreeable if needed…

this might be a phrasing issue rather than a fundamental disagreement. I certainly plan on nudging my older cub on which troop to select, because I know which troop in the area runs the best scout led troop. Our pack historically has sent scouts mainly to a different troop, but that troop is on the decline currently. So yeah, I plan to have my thumb on the scale when it comes to picking. 

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, karunamom3 said:

Thanks to everyone that responded. Such great advice & support.

Tonight is the troops leaders meeting where we hope to hash it out. We have a council rep joining us to listen and give 'friendly advice' in his words.

We plan to voice our concerns, lay out our options/facilitating them (staying, going, etc) and point blank asking the current SM what his intentions are. I will update tomorrow. 

If we stay, the 3 of us will take leadership roles within the troop. I will not give up CM because I just started. This is my first year & I love it, I really do! As for the girls troop, it may just have to sit on the back burner for now even though council won't like it. We shall see.

Yesterday, I found out why the current SM may be hanging around... he is running for elected office as freeholder. So, being SM looks good on his resume I suppose, but he is failing the youth in the process. 

Sounds like a good next step @karunamom3.  I look forward to hearing how it goes.

[Liz]

2 hours ago, karunamom3 said:

Thanks to everyone that responded. Such great advice & support.

Tonight is the troops leaders meeting where we hope to hash it out. We have a council rep joining us to listen and give 'friendly advice' in his words.

We plan to voice our concerns, lay out our options/facilitating them (staying, going, etc) and point blank asking the current SM what his intentions are. I will update tomorrow. 

If we stay, the 3 of us will take leadership roles within the troop. I will not give up CM because I just started. This is my first year & I love it, I really do! As for the girls troop, it may just have to sit on the back burner for now even though council won't like it. We shall see.

Yesterday, I found out why the current SM may be hanging around... he is running for elected office as freeholder. So, being SM looks good on his resume I suppose, but he is failing the youth in the process. 

I don't have anywhere near the wisdom or experience of the people who have already replied on this thread (and I think you've had some GREAT advice) - but I do have a couple of thoughts. Give me a moment to tell you where we are and what we're doing, and then I have a few ideas for you as well.

We have moved to a different Council entirely since my older kids were Scout age (my first two kids are adults now). So we started over entirely last year when my then 7 year old daughter joined a Wolf den. We signed up with what at the time was the only Family Pack in the area and it didn't work out due to major leadership conflicts mainly among the CC, the COR, and the CM. Earlier this Scouting year my daughter's entire den and the CM withdrew from the pack  that we started with and convinced another small local Pack to open up a girl den for our (now Bear) girls; the boys in our pack just joined the existing den. The CM became ACM and that's where we are now. 

The now-ACM also has a daughter who is in Webelos. She's the only one in her girl den and I think there might be one or two in a boy den now that we've changed packs. I'm not sure exactly what they are doing with the Webelos program but her husband is the Boy Bear Den Leader and I'm the Girl Bear Den Leader and a Committee Member. What we are seeing is that there aren't any girl troops forming in our area of town other than the one we had major conflicts with in our former Pack. So even though neither of us has girls who are ready to join Scouts BSA yet, we are actively recruiting like-minded leadership and girls and are negotiating with a couple of possible COs to start a new girl troop. We are more than open to starting a tethered troop with a new CO, or join a CO that already has a boy troop, or start with just girls - but right now we have about half a dozen girls and a full committee ready to hit the ground running as soon as we have a CO. 

Personally, my goal in being involved at this level right now is to have a troop up and running with some experienced youth leaders already in place by the time my daughter crosses over in a couple of years. I also have a 4 year old daughter so I expect I'm going to have kids in Scouting for the next 14 years... maybe longer if they move on to Venturing like my oldest did when she (long story) aged out of Boy Scouts. 

So here's my thought for you - don't limit your discussions in your Pack to just "what troop should we be moving towards" but also "what can we as adult leaders do to create a successful program for our Bears to cross over into." Talk to the Troop's committee and point out that the SM really needs to be COR, remind them how important that job is, but also less critical that the COR attend all the camping trips and things, and see if you can nudge the current SM into the position he really ought to be holding and get new SMs in place for both boys and girls - possibly out of your active and enthusiastic Cub Scout leadership pool. See if you can recruit some more parents of Cub Scouts to step up and help pick up the slack in the Pack to free up some of your more experienced leadership to spend time with the Troops. Remind them that the goal of this is to create an exciting program for the kids to move into. Get them thinking forward. Oh, and make sure EVERYONE gets trained!!

And if that doesn't work, either due to lack of volunteers or due to immovability on the part of the current Troop leadership, propose that you talk to other Troops in the area about a merger, and if that doesn't fly either, just take your family to a Troop where they are running a good program - and get involved there. If your COR at your current troop won't work to make a successful program now for the boys, don't expect them to do any better for the girls; better to get another organization with experience at running a *successful* Troop to charter one for your girls. 

Kids should never feel like Scouting is a drag. If your son is feeling that way, he needs to be in a better troop. You either create that for him where he is, or you move him to somewhere that it's already happening. 

Sorry that was so long! 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Liz
Clarity

[qwazse]

@Liz. sounds like you've got a good bit 'o wisdom kicked in you from the school of hard knocks!

[ParkMan]

50 minutes ago, Liz said:

So here's my thought for you - don't limit your discussions in your Pack to just "what troop should we be moving towards" but also "what can we as adult leaders do to create a successful program for our Bears to cross over into." Talk to the Troop's committee and point out that the SM really needs to be COR, remind them how important that job is, but also less critical that the COR attend all the camping trips and things, and see if you can nudge the current SM into the position he really ought to be holding and get new SMs in place for both boys and girls - possibly out of your active and enthusiastic Cub Scout leadership pool. See if you can recruit some more parents of Cub Scouts to step up and help pick up the slack in the Pack to free up some of your more experienced leadership to spend time with the Troops. Remind them that the goal of this is to create an exciting program for the kids to move into. Get them thinking forward. Oh, and make sure EVERYONE gets trained!!

Great idea!!!

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, Liz said:

So here's my thought for you - don't limit your discussions in your Pack to just "what troop should we be moving towards" but also "what can we as adult leaders do to create a successful program for our Bears to cross over into." Talk to the Troop's committee and point out that the SM really needs to be COR, remind them how important that job is, but also less critical that the COR attend all the camping trips and things, and see if you can nudge the current SM into the position he really ought to be holding and get new SMs in place for both boys and girls - possibly out of your active and enthusiastic Cub Scout leadership pool. See if you can recruit some more parents of Cub Scouts to step up and help pick up the slack in the Pack to free up some of your more experienced leadership to spend time with the Troops. Remind them that the goal of this is to create an exciting program for the kids to move into. Get them thinking forward. Oh, and make sure EVERYONE gets trained!!

I did this in our district and it works pretty well. You have to sell the troop, but that's not very hard because it's easy recruiting. We did it for weak den leaders in our district.

Barry