Webelos II - Adventure Requirements - Clarification

[PackALder]

As part of the Webelos II, Arrow of lights, there are four Adventure Requirements. 

From the URL http://boyscouttrail.com/webelos/arrow_of_light_adventures.php#core, One of the Four Adventure is listed below:

Practice the patrol method in your den for one month by doing the following:

1. Explain the patrol method. Describe the types of patrols that might be part of a Boy Scout troop.
2. Hold an election to choose the patrol leader.
3. Develop a patrol name and emblem (if your den does not already have one), as well as a patrol flag and yell. Explain how a patrol name, emblem, flag, and yell create patrol spirit.
4. As a patrol, make plans to participate in a Boy Scout troop's campout or other outdoor activity.

For this requirement, The Web II scouts did the above requirement,  The question is that are the Webelos II earns a Patrol Patch from the Pack, Or the Web II, earns the patch once they join the Troop?   Your response is highly appreciated. 

[RememberSchiff]

@PackALder  welcome to scouter.com

[malraux]

I don’t know if earns the patrol patch is the right way to put it. They have a patrol emblem once they vote on it. They just are the raccoons den, or the tacos or whatever. The den leader could buy the patchs, the youth could buy them, etc as per your pack tradition. If you’re crossing over shortly, I might not do that just because it’s not real thrifty. But a troop generally wouldn’t purchase the patch because the troop doesn’t buy stuff for youth who aren’t members. 

[The Latin Scot]

27 minutes ago, malraux said:

I don’t know if earns the patrol patch is the right way to put it. They have a patrol emblem once they vote on it. They just are the raccoons den, or the tacos or whatever. The den leader could buy the patchs, the youth could buy them, etc as per your pack tradition. If you’re crossing over shortly, I might not do that just because it’s not real thrifty. But a troop generally wouldn’t purchase the patch because the troop doesn’t buy stuff for youth who aren’t members. 

Exactly; the boys choose a name as they practice the patrol method as per requirement C, and if they wish to wear a patch on their uniforms, it is purchased through the den or the pack committee. A Scout troop would NOT be involved in any part of the process, simply because a Scout troop is a separate unit and not responsible for the goings-on in a Cub Scout unit. When the Webelos scouts are completing this requirement, it is done on their own, with no adult intervention and certainly without involving any older scouts - the point is for them to do it on their own. And for that reason, the name they choose does not carry with them into Scouts BSA either.

It is important to note that there is actually no such thing as "Webelos II" or "Arrow of Light" den. This is an invention of some packs that really isn't part of how Cub Scouts is supposed to be organized; all boys after Bears are considered Webelos Scouts in the Webelos den, and they can work on any requirements of any adventure in any order. Technically, a boy could even earn his Arrow of Light before earning his Webelos rank. So, a brand-new group of Webelos Scouts can work on this adventure as soon as they start in the Webelos den. I actually recommend doing the patrol activities early so that the boys can have more time with their patrol name, flag, identity, et cetera, giving them more time to adjust to the change that is imminent in Scouts BSA. 

[malraux]

I’ll agree with that. Running as a patrol is my first plan for my bear den starting next year. I want everyone to call us the robot den or the wolverines or whatever the kids pick instead of webelos 1. Some of the stuff well hold off on til the next year, but that scouting adventure requirement should start as the first webelos activity, and its not a good thing that the training stuff doesn’t explain that. 

[PackALder]

Thanks a lot for your responses,  The real patrol activities starts once the Webelos joins the Troop,  at the same time, the scouts may join different Troop, Some may drop, and they need  wear the patch  on Boy Scout Uniform not on the Cub Scout Uniform,  Is it the pack's responsibility to Hand Over the patches or or It is Troop responsibility to hand over the patches once they the Troop?

 

 

[malraux]

2 minutes ago, PackALder said:

Boy Scout Uniform not on the Cub Scout Uniform,  Is it the pack's responsibility to Hand Over the patches or or It is Troop responsibility to hand over the patches once they the Troop?

yes, technically it is not a required element of the webelos uniform. That said, if they are "Practicing the patrol method in your den for one month" then as webelos scouts they should be wearing a patrol patch, IMO. Again, I wouldn't care too much if they don't worry about the patch if they are about to cross over, because they will repeat the patrol formation process again shortly.

The troop should not hand over the patch because the youth aren't in the troop. It should either be the pack/den, or the individual scout's job to get the patch, depending on your unit's custom. But patrol patches aren't controlled items, so anyone can get it.

[mrkstvns]

2 hours ago, malraux said:

yes, technically it is not a required element of the webelos uniform. That said, if they are "Practicing the patrol method in your den for one month" then as webelos scouts they should be wearing a patrol patch, IMO. Again, I wouldn't care too much if they don't worry about the patch if they are about to cross over, because they will repeat the patrol formation process again shortly.

If a Webelos scout needs to "practice" being in a patrol, I don't think he needs to waste time and money getting a patch and sewing it on, only to have it be moot soon after.

Once he joins a troop, he'll be part of a real patrol where it will be expected of him to have a patrol patch on his uniform. That comes immediately after  joining the troop (and should be a part of getting his Scout rank --- requirement 3b).

Also, the way things tend to work in my son's troop is that when a new patrol is formed, the boys get together and decide as a patrol what their identity will be. They make a flag, come up with a yell, and decide among themselves what kind of emblem they want on their patrol patch. Then, typically, one of the parents will go to the scout shop and buy all of the patches for a patrol, or will order them online (more common, as there's a wider range of possibilities, and custom patches can be ordered if nothing stock fits the name...)

[Thunderbird]

There is some new guidance from National for Webelos and AOL ranks.  It appears to only apply to packs who transition based on grade (not birthday):

Cub Scout Program: The Advancement Trail

Quote

Fourth Grade - Webelos Requirements
Fourth graders work toward the Webelos rank. The Webelos rank is earned by completing six adventures as described below.  Scouts who are in Cub Scouts in fourth grade must complete the Webelos rank before working towards their Arrow of Light (emphasis added).

What I think they are saying is that Webelos Scouts currently in the 4th grade have to complete all of the Webelos rank requirements before they can work on any of the AOL required adventures.

However, because the Scouting adventure requirement says "c. Develop a patrol name and emblem (if your den does not already have one), as well as a patrol flag and yell. Explain how a patrol name, emblem, flag, and yell create patrol spirit", that implies to me that they can vote on a den name and emblem (patch) at any time while they are Webelos Scouts -- they do not have to wait until they are working on the Scouting Adventure.

I recommend velcro for things like rank and den/patrol patches that are likely to change.

 

 

[Thunderbird]

1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

What I think they are saying is that Webelos Scouts currently in the 4th grade have to complete all of the Webelos rank requirements before they can work on any of the AOL required adventures.

I guess I waited too long to edit this, but it should say:

...before they can work on any of the AOL required adventures -- while they are still in the 4th grade.

[DavidLeeLambert]

On 2/24/2019 at 10:15 PM, malraux said:

I don’t know if earns the patrol patch is the right way to put it. They have a patrol emblem once they vote on it. [...]. 

I'll agree with that as well. Furthermore, the requirement isn't "follow the Patrol Method completely"; it's "practice the Patrol Method, by doing the following:". And of course, Cub Scout requirements are measured against Do Your Best.

At the council-organized day-camp I took my son's pack to last year, the Webelos helped choose the provisional-den yells, and only the Webelos in each den made the provisional-den flags. That counted for (c) of the requirement, at least.

Later, after we got home, at a regular den meeting, we talked about the Patrol method some more and the boys had an election. They actually chose a boy who hadn't made it to camp. If I had planned better, I would have had a Denner cord ready to give to whoever won the election; but the election was what satisfied the requirement, not what they wore after it; and they earned a belt-loop (and their rank) by completing the Adventure.

[RememberSchiff]

@DavidLeeLambert  welcome to scouter.com

[JasonG172]

There is no Earning

Create a name for the Patrol, get them the Patrol Patch. 

 

I typically call in the Troop for this portion of the learning, if you have one available at the time

[qwazse]

If this is a question of "Who pays?" I guess the answer is "Whoever flinches first."

If the scouts are at the scout shop and see a patrol patch that suits them, and they shell out their milk money for it, it's a done deal.

If the troop has a good fundraising year, they might spring for patrol patches.