July 4th

[OneHour]

An early ... Happy 4th to all. May she stand tall and proud forever!

 

http://www.njagyouth.org/liberty.htm

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Eamonn]

Needless to say I get a lot of good natured leg pulling over the July 4Th.

I still can't work out how you managed it in 1776 and it took the Irish till 1922.

There is a really good historical documentary on PBS "Liberty". It is on Monday night in our area.

I'm learning a lot of stuff that I didn't know.

Strange how when I was at school in England, our history lessons never spent a lot of time on wars that we lost.

This Sunday I will light a candle for all of our guys American and English over in Iraq, hoping that they all get home safe and well as quickly as possible.

Eamonn

[NJCubScouter]

I still can't work out how you managed it in 1776 and it took the Irish till 1922.

 

I could take a few guesses:

 

1. Look at the relative distance between England and Ireland, and between England and North America. This probably made it relatively more difficult and costly for Great Britain to maintain sovereignty over the "states" and relatively easier for the "states" to break away.

 

2. Ireland was seen as much more integral to the "United Kingdom" (a name that I believe was adopted in 1800, and the full name at the time was United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland) than the "states" were, and therefore there was much more incentive for Great Britain to maintain its control over Ireland.

 

3. Although the relationship between Great Britain and Ireland was, as you know, a very stormy one for more than 1,000 years, at various times the Irish people had what the Americans never received voluntarily from the King, and that is "representation." During certain periods (probably starting around the 1600's) the Irish had their own parliament, at other times there was Irish representation in the British parliament, at times there was both, and at times there was neither. As a result, often there was probably less impetus for complete independence in Ireland as there was in America. (And when there WAS an impetus for complete independence, see reasons 1 and 2 above for the reasons why the Irish were unsuccessful until the 1920s. There were, of course, a number of wars in which the Irish sought various levels of independence, and they ultimately were successful except for the northern counties.)

 

Eamonn, I assume you knew all this, but since you asked the question, there is what I think is the answer. I think the answer really has much more to do with the history of British control over Ireland (which lasted over 1000 years and still exists in the north to this day), than it does with the history of America (in which the British were in control for a relatively brief period of 100 to 150 years. That date would vary by "colony", I know that the British took New York and New Jersey from the Dutch in 1664 and of course lost it and the other colonies 112 years later; other colonies were under British control from much earlier in the 1600's.)

 

And by the way, Happy Independence Day everyone! I'm going to find out on Sunday whether all of my children now consider themselves "too cool" to go watch fireworks with their parents.

[mrs red feather]

Eamonn,

 

Thanks for your plug for the PBS series "Liberty! the American Revolution." I taped it a couple years ago and still watch it frequently. I also purchased the companion book on ebay by Thomas Fleming. It's a good overview of the Revolution and has lots of great pictures but unfortunately no bibliography.

 

I just finished reading "Washington's Crossing" by David Hackett Fischer about the events of late 1776 and early 1777 which turned the tide in favor of the Americans. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the subject.

 

I am also reading "Private Yankee Doodle: Being a Narrative of Some of the Adventures, Dangers and Sufferings of a Revolutionary Soldier" by Joseph Plumb Martin. Yep, the same young soldier from the PBS series. This is one of the very few existing recollections of a private soldier in the Revolution.

 

In my opinion schools on this side of the pond also teach too little history.

 

Enjoy your holiday, all!

 

 

[Eamonn]

Thanks NJ,

Of course with a name like Eamonn, it almost goes without saying my parents were very pro Irish and I think I was about 11 years old till I worked out that record players could play records that weren't Irish rebel songs.

Mrs Red Feather,

I didn't know that this was a re-run. How did I miss it the first time. I'm learning a lot of stuff and I think the presentation is both fair and true.

I hope in the very near future to try and find out more about the history of our area and some of the events that shaped American History. Our District is Braddock Trail and we have Jamonville just down the road along with Fort Necessity. At the other end of the council we also have Fort Ligonier. I have to admit to being a little surprised at how little even the locals know about this time.

You guys are lucky you only have a couple of hundred years of history. Pity the poor English Schoolboy. They start at about 43 AD!!

Eamonn.

[OldGreyEagle]

The Anasazi and other cliff dwelling tribes of the Southeast are presumed to predate even that Eamonn

[LovetoCamp]

A&E had an original movie a couple years ago, "The Crossing" with Jeff Daniels playing George Washington.

 

My brother in law does the fireworks out at the fairgrounds. He does a great job. Everyone there suffers some hearing loss.

 

Just finished Newt Gingrich's historical fiction, "Gettysburg" and have just started his second in the series, "Grant Comes East". Good stuff.

 

I took the Sea Scouts and my 6 year olds to Civil War days at The Railway Museum last weekend. We toured the camps of these Outdoor Living Historians, viewed the displays, rode trains and trolleys, and watched a recreation of First Bull Run. My little guys (wearing blue kepis) were shocked to see their Union Army drove from the field. "Dad the Johnny Rebs are winning!!!" I thought they were going to cry. It was a super day.

[Eamonn]

OGE

You are of course right.

I wasn't counting the Mesolithic,Neolithic or Bronze ages. Maybe because I didn't have to work at remembering names and dates. As far as I know there is no record of anyone getting an arrow in his eye or having half a dozen wifes.

Eamonn

[Zionia]

wish you all a great 4th of july. Hope you have fun. seeing as it is sunday, my troop is doing a 3rd of july parade in our township. hope you all celabrate and have a great weekend

~Z