Eagle-required merit badges that have alternatives --- an observation

[SSF]

9 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

My son, and other scouts, really don't like swimming in the lake at summer camp. He chose to do the Hiking merit badge for that reason. I did the hikes with him. It certainly is harder than Swimming.

Cycling might be done less often due to fewer counselors, too.

Do you feel that hiking is a more valuable life skill to have over swimming? 

[Jameson76]

Cycling is a hard one due to the rides, yes if you are cycler it is straightforward, but to the casual participant it is tough.

We are near one of the longest rails to trails in the country, literally it runs 90 miles one way.  The troop does a bicycle trek on it annually.  For the weekend the scouts can typically accomplish the 25 mile and then a 10 or 15  the next day.  Also they can do the 50 mile if they are up to it.  There are 7 rides total, so it does take planning.  Over a couple years a Scout can complete maybe 4 of the rides with the troop and do the other 3 around the city we live in.

I would agree that Lifesaving is a much more straightforward path than E Prep.

Hiking MB also has numerous hikes;  a 5 miler, three 10 milers, and one 15 miler.  Then a 20 miler.  Swimming is a simpler path

 

[HashTagScouts]

A lot can be explained by troop programming.  If most troops put their first year summer campers in a "flight to First Class" program, along with swimming MB, those scouts get all their aquatic requirements for their ranks knocked out, and an Eagle MB to boot.

E Sci is probably the suggestion most troops make to their 2nd/3rd year summer campers.  As there are not a huge number of scouts who have earned Sustainability in the few years it has been a round, then you would have to assume that means there are few scout summer camp staffers that have it, and can not easily then teach it.  Plus, let's be honest with ourselves, there are a number of summer camps out there that basically spoon feed E Sci.

E Prep is easier for many scouts to obtain at an earlier age, and as others mentioned, it can be offered at any time of year.    

 

[mrkstvns]

17 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

...there are a number of summer camps out there that basically spoon feed E Sci.

And several other merit badges.  That's a big reason I tell scouts to do fun, outdoor-focused merit badges and leave all the boring, class-oriented merit badges to workshops or independent effort.  

In our council (maybe yours too), the spoon feeding has gotten so bad that council-run camps actually double-up merit badges *in a single session*.  This lets them either: 1) lie about having done the merit badges, 2) deliver a horrible experience that inadequately covers the requirements, or 3) send kids home with huge numbers of partials. (This tends to be especially common with the classroom-oriented badges.)

My disgust at our local council's program staff can not be understated.

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

Much harder for all scouts period.  

I'm always surprised by the major difference of difficulty of the eagle merit badges.  Some are significant work.  Some are almost automatic.  

Not harder for the scout who, 5 years straight, "forgets" to check in at the aquatics area to round out that last requirement his swimming MB partial.

[HashTagScouts]

24 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

And several other merit badges.  That's a big reason I tell scouts to do fun, outdoor-focused merit badges and leave all the boring, class-oriented merit badges to workshops or independent effort.  

In our council (maybe yours too), the spoon feeding has gotten so bad that council-run camps actually double-up merit badges *in a single session*.  This lets them either: 1) lie about having done the merit badges, 2) deliver a horrible experience that inadequately covers the requirements, or 3) send kids home with huge numbers of partials. (This tends to be especially common with the classroom-oriented badges.)

My disgust at our local council's program staff can not be understated.

The camp my son attended and worked at had a lot of problems with some MBs, and E Sci specifically.  I spent a bit of time at the nature area my first two years attending summer camp as an adult leader (mostly as it was the closest program area to the campsite, and we had a # of kids going through there working on MBs).  They had two desktop computers to be used by like 30 kids working on E Sci, on top of those working on Space Exploration and any other MB in camp that needed the internet to look things up.  Considering that kids today are not going to handwrite a report unless their life depended on it, all of them wanted to use the word processor on those desktops.  So the kids are limited on time, and basically have to rush through it.  I sat and observed kid after kid coming out, handing reports to the staffer, who just checked their name off on a list, and never even looked at what the kid handed them.  They could have been typing out the lyrics to their favorite song for all he knew.   I spent a fair amount of time helping out at work weekends when my son went on staff, and learned from some adult leaders from units that attended camp on different weeks than us that they had stopped letting their kids work on E Sci at camp for those same reasons. 

Finally, after three years, the camp put a limit on the # of scouts that could work on E Sci in a given week last summer, and the AD became the only counselor for it on his staff.    It's tough, you want to have options for scouts to work on while at camp, but generally I think aside from aquatics, no Eagle required badges should be offered.  Why would any unit expect a scout to have to work on Camping MB at a summer camp??? Can't say a whole lot about their unit if their scouts feel that is a need IMO. 

[mrkstvns]

25 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

..., you want to have options for scouts to work on while at camp, but generally I think aside from aquatics, no Eagle required badges should be offered.  Why would any unit expect a scout to have to work on Camping MB at a summer camp??? Can't say a whole lot about their unit if their scouts feel that is a need IMO. 

I agree completely!

Swimming and Lifesaving are very appropriate for a camp environment, but most of the other Eagle-required badges demand (and reward) time.  Some camps do okay with E-Science, but it's not an easy badge and really should not be rushed.  All other Eagle-required badges are best earned individually or in the troop environment back home.

[Thunderbird]

20 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

It's tough, you want to have options for scouts to work on while at camp, but generally I think aside from aquatics, no Eagle required badges should be offered.  Why would any unit expect a scout to have to work on Camping MB at a summer camp??? Can't say a whole lot about their unit if their scouts feel that is a need IMO. 

 

I think First Aid can be another good one to do at camp.  I agree on most of the Eagle-required badges - many of them are not really suited for camp, anyway.  For Environmental Science, one option could be to have the requirements that require report writing be done prior to camp as pre-requisites (in order to complete the badge at camp).  That might be about the only way to make it work when camps have limited equipment (computers, printers, internet access, etc.).

[MikeS72]

On 2/19/2019 at 12:10 PM, mrkstvns said:

Hiking is pretty fun too.  Just doesn't lend itself well to a summer camp schedule because it requires  one 5-mile hike, three 10-mile hikes and one 15-mile hikes.  That's a lot of walking...

Don't forget the killer one - 20 miles in a single day.  We just had a couple of scouts for whom the 20 was the last thing they had to do to be complete; we did that with them while we were out of school on Monday.  At the end of the day, both remarked that they were pleased with earning the MB, but that they would not be doing another 20 again any time soon.

[MikeS72]

On 2/19/2019 at 12:41 PM, mrkstvns said:

Times change.  When I was a scout, we did Lifesaving (and Swimming) in a lake.  All of the MB summer camps that I've seen in and around Texas have pools.  While the kids still need to retrieve weights, they have it easier than us because they don't have the added challenge of murky water.

Times do change.  When I was a scout, there were no alternate MBs.  We had to have camping, Citizenship in the Community & Nation, Conservation of Natural Resources, Cooking, First Aid, Lifesaving, Nature, Personal Fitness, Safety, and Swimming.  The following year the requirements changed, 24 were required for Eagle rather than 21, but Camping, Cooking, and Nature were no longer required, and several alternates were introduced.  

[MikeS72]

23 hours ago, SSF said:

Do you feel that hiking is a more valuable life skill to have over swimming? 

Not here in Florida.  Hiking is a little easier here at this time of year, when it can still be relatively cool.  Much of the Florida Trail tends to be fairly level, although trekking through water, mud and sugar sand can slow you down a bit.

[69RoadRunner]

On 2/19/2019 at 2:00 PM, SSF said:

Do you feel that hiking is a more valuable life skill to have over swimming? 

No.

[HashTagScouts]

1 hour ago, MikeS72 said:

Don't forget the killer one - 20 miles in a single day.  We just had a couple of scouts for whom the 20 was the last thing they had to do to be complete; we did that with them while we were out of school on Monday.  At the end of the day, both remarked that they were pleased with earning the MB, but that they would not be doing another 20 again any time soon.

i am getting a good chuckle from this.  As a MBC, that is the usual response.  Previously, the requirements were five 10 mile hikes and one 20 mile hike (and no requirement of having to do them in set order).  I've probably had 5-6 scouts over the years that got through the 10 milers, and then after talking to other scouts about how much more strenuous the 20 miler is, give up and decide to go work on swimming MB.  I like the more graduated approach under the current requirements myself.   

[SSScout]

Hiking:::   

I have heard hiking called "a walk with a purpose".

I have been told the Army considers a fit soldier with full kit should be able to cover 4 miles an hour.  For how long?  

  I like to think I can do a day hike (water, snacks, binocs, first aid kit, poncho....) at maybe 3 mph, breaks and sit downs to watch the flora and fauna not included.   When I lead a Historic Hike of John and Jane Q. Citizen, and tell stories along the way, we might cover 4 miles in 3 hours.... 

It was once suggested to me (and the Advancement Chair agreed)  that a Scout , who carries the wherewithal for a hike in the woods, could count his time pushing the family lawnmower (not self propelled !) as a hike, IF he could document the distance .  3 hours pushing, times 2 or 3  miles per hour....    

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, MikeS72 said:

Times do change.  When I was a scout, there were no alternate MBs.  We had to have camping, Citizenship in the Community & Nation, Conservation of Natural Resources, Cooking, First Aid, Lifesaving, Nature, Personal Fitness, Safety, and Swimming.  The following year the requirements changed, 24 were required for Eagle rather than 21, but Camping, Cooking, and Nature were no longer required, and several alternates were introduced.  

Back in the day, I recall more map reading, planning a route involved with Hiking merit badge.  It was destination first, routing for distance second.  I had to know location of police stations, hospitals, likely phone booths. 

Now, like Swimming and Cycling, IMO it is just going the distance. Have a 5 mile rail trail nearby, 4 laps with little elevation change or navigation. 20 miles,just git er done.  One scout wanted to hike around his high school track - 80 laps.