"Pencil Whipping" Requirements

[1tree]

Well to be blunt if I were the SM and heard a breath of this discussion the US would NEVER be at another meeting of my troop. End of story. I would first speak to my COR, then to my DE and make it clear. I would call and have said person removed for trespassing if he/she showed up at another unit event. But also for a more complete discussion lets take a moment and see the requirement as written:

4b - Show the proper care of a rope by learning how to whip and fuse the ends of different kinds of rope.

Now which words state that the scout must put flame to the rope? We can argue all day long about what it means to learn to do this skill. And yes, my scouts torch the rope. Typically they create a quite ugly end. But the words demonstrate simply do NOT appear above.

To be clear, the job of the UC is not defender of the ranks. And quite frankly I believe the only real concern here is that some people are trying to make sure those girls don't get off easy. I think the UC and the poster should both go back and spend some time studying the Scout Oath and Law. They should take to heart "Help other people" and "Friendly, Courteous, Kind." They should spend some time encouraging the girls who are clearly motivated instead of getting hung up on technicalities they clearly don't understand. 

For the record, I look at the book repeatedly. I just don't trust that I know what the words actually say. My troop has been in operation a little more than three years and the requirements have been tweaked at least four times. And above all else, I remind myself regularly what the aims of scouting are.

[Ranman328]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 12:11 AM, 1tree said:

Well to be blunt if I were the SM and heard a breath of this discussion the US would NEVER be at another meeting of my troop. End of story. I would first speak to my COR, then to my DE and make it clear. I would call and have said person removed for trespassing if he/she showed up at another unit event. But also for a more complete discussion lets take a moment and see the requirement as written:

4b - Show the proper care of a rope by learning how to whip and fuse the ends of different kinds of rope.

Now which words state that the scout must put flame to the rope? We can argue all day long about what it means to learn to do this skill. And yes, my scouts torch the rope. Typically they create a quite ugly end. But the words demonstrate simply do NOT appear above.

To be clear, the job of the UC is not defender of the ranks. And quite frankly I believe the only real concern here is that some people are trying to make sure those girls don't get off easy. I think the UC and the poster should both go back and spend some time studying the Scout Oath and Law. They should take to heart "Help other people" and "Friendly, Courteous, Kind." They should spend some time encouraging the girls who are clearly motivated instead of getting hung up on technicalities they clearly don't understand. 

For the record, I look at the book repeatedly. I just don't trust that I know what the words actually say. My troop has been in operation a little more than three years and the requirements have been tweaked at least four times. And above all else, I remind myself regularly what the aims of scouting are.

  You do realize the UC is assigned to the unit by the District Commissioner and District right?  Are you really saying you would have a volunteer "Removed" for trespassing for doing their "Volunteer" job?  It is the UC's job to ensure the program is being delivered properly.  It is the Unit Commissioner's job to conduct a Detailed Unit Assessment annually which covers administration of the program.  I'm not sure where you got your impression of what a UC does but I believe you have been misinformed.  A good UC would show up unannounced to see how the Unit actually operates. 

I believe the concern is that the girls have the same program delivered to them as the boys and they have the same experience as the boys.  Isn't that why they wanted the program opened up to them in the first place? 

I do believe the requirement as you have stated in 4b says "SHOW" the proper care.  That tells me they must "SHOW" me how to whip and fuse a rope.  No sense playing trying to play word games now.  This is how it has been taught in my 15 years.

[qwazse]

On March 5, 2019 at 12:11 AM, 1tree said:

... lets take a moment and see the requirement as written:

4b - Show the proper care of a rope by learning how to whip and fuse the ends of different kinds of rope.

Now which words state that the scout must put flame to the rope? ...

Finally took a look at the requirement as GBB wrote it (BSHB, 9th Ed, Camping skill award, 3.a.): Whip the ends of a rope.

What!? No fusing? And we didn't have to show anybody. We could come to our leader with one rope -- ends neatly bound -- and say, "See, I whipped it. Whipped it good." [Cue Devo]

Then for fun I could go find some strike-anywhere matches, light them off my teeth, and melt me some of that new-fangled nylon rope.

Advancement was so much easier back in the day ... at least I didn't have as much legalese to parse!

[John-in-KC]

On 2/12/2019 at 5:10 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Good reminder. I'm sure many of us continue to slip up on the naming conventions but with the GSUSA is currently suing Scouts BSA over this, we need to be careful. Thanks.

Nice thing about being a mod. We can fix that on the fly.  Thanks, @SCOUTER-Terry for that functionality. 

[John-in-KC]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:42 AM, Ranman328 said:

  You do realize the UC is assigned to the unit by the District Commissioner and District right?  Are you really saying you would have a volunteer "Removed" for trespassing for doing their "Volunteer" job?  It is the UC's job to ensure the program is being delivered properly.  It is the Unit Commissioner's job to conduct a Detailed Unit Assessment annually which covers administration of the program.  I'm not sure where you got your impression of what a UC does but I believe you have been misinformed.  A good UC would show up unannounced to see how the Unit actually operates. 

I believe the concern is that the girls have the same program delivered to them as the boys and they have the same experience as the boys.  Isn't that why they wanted the program opened up to them in the first place? 

I do believe the requirement as you have stated in 4b says "SHOW" the proper care.  That tells me they must "SHOW" me how to whip and fuse a rope.  No sense playing trying to play word games now.  This is how it has been taught in my 15 years.

I’ve seen it happen in my district. The COR told the DE and DC that UC was no longer welcome on their property. 

[ParkMan]

On 3/23/2019 at 5:46 PM, John-in-KC said:

I’ve seen it happen in my district. The COR told the DE and DC that UC was no longer welcome on their property. 

Same here.  A CC of a local troop asked the DC to stop sending a certain UC to their unit.  

[Sentinel947]

On 3/16/2019 at 11:42 AM, Ranman328 said:

  You do realize the UC is assigned to the unit by the District Commissioner and District right?  Are you really saying you would have a volunteer "Removed" for trespassing for doing their "Volunteer" job?  It is the UC's job to ensure the program is being delivered properly.  It is the Unit Commissioner's job to conduct a Detailed Unit Assessment annually which covers administration of the program.  I'm not sure where you got your impression of what a UC does but I believe you have been misinformed.  A good UC would show up unannounced to see how the Unit actually operates. 

I believe the concern is that the girls have the same program delivered to them as the boys and they have the same experience as the boys.  Isn't that why they wanted the program opened up to them in the first place? 

I do believe the requirement as you have stated in 4b says "SHOW" the proper care.  That tells me they must "SHOW" me how to whip and fuse a rope.  No sense playing trying to play word games now.  This is how it has been taught in my 15 years.

You can get more flies with honey than with vinegar. 

I believe Unit Commissioners operate best when they are a friendly face, a mentor, a guide. Not a police officer, an inspector or an enforcer. Unless there is some sort of health or safety issue going on, a soft power approach is going to fix far more units than a confrontational and aggressive approach. Maybe your district or council does things differently than mine. 

https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Unit_Commissioner