When/How to Award ranks with new troop

[scotteg83]

So a little back story first.  I am the Scoutmaster for a troop that has been around for 90 years, and sometime in the past, we got a big bag of unused rank patches (back when the Scout badge was brown and not a rank).  So for immediate recognition we present the rank patch to the Scouts during closing of that meeting.  Our advancement chair then fills out an an advancement report for council, and turns it all in before our COH. Using that advancement report, he then buys the patch to replace our "stock". During the COH, the scouts are awarded their rank cards and parent pins.

 

Now,  I have help started a Brand new troop with no start-up money besides dues.  The Scouts haven't planed their year or fundraising, so costs have to be kept at a minimum.  I know the scout shop sells a bigger pin for immediate rank recognition, but that just seems like a unnecessary extra cost.   How does your troop handle this?  Do the Scouts keep the pin? or trade it back in for their cloth patch during the COH?  Do you Recognize, but not award anything till the COH?

 

Thanks for any thoughts,

 

Scott

 

[Eagledad]

We do it exactly the way your first troop does it. We present our Eagles with a patch at the first troop meeting after their EBOR. I even presented my Webelos with their awards at the den meetings.

Barry

[Treflienne]

19 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

Now,  I have help started a Brand new troop with no start-up money besides dues.  The Scouts haven't planed their year or fundraising, so costs have to be kept at a minimum.

If I remember right, you are talking about a new girls' troop?  Are you linked to an existing boys' troop?   Are they willing to let you use and resupply their "stock" of patches (to spare you the cost of extra pins) at least as you are getting started?

[Eagle94-A1]

26 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

  I know the scout shop sells a bigger pin for immediate rank recognition, but that just seems like a unnecessary extra cost.  

That larger pin is not for immediate recognition, but is actually a Rank pin, worn on the pocket in lieu of the patch.Unless things have changed since I worked in supply,  it is a restricted item and needs an Advancement Report.  I remember the complaints we got about the First Class Rank Pin and the Campaign Hats and Expedition hats. The Insignia Guide stated youth wore the First Class Rank pin, but they could not buy it without providing paperwork. Saw many a Scout wear the Adult Universal Pin instead.

 

If you are a linked troop, see if the boys's troop can spot you some patches. If not, see if any of their Scouts will buys some "Replacements" to get your supply started.

[Jameson76]

We also do the recognition at the time of passing the BOR.  Same for giving them a pin and card at the COH.  Sidenote is we meet outside and make sure we pick up patches after the meeting.

Someone may have to front the troop for some rank patches.  You can probably do some quick math and figure out what is needed.  Ex if you have 10 new Scouts, you will need 10 Scout / Tenderfoot / Second Class / First Class.  Rank patches (from BSA supply site) seem to be about $2.  This would be $80 as seed money.  Maybe in the first year that can be recouped with dues etc.

[fred8033]

52 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

So for immediate recognition we present the rank patch to the Scouts during closing of that meeting.  Our advancement chair then fills out an an advancement report for council, and turns it all in before our COH. Using that advancement report, he then buys the patch to replace our "stock". During the COH, the scouts are awarded their rank cards and parent pins.

This is my preferred method.  Give them the cloth patch immediately after BOR.  Give them the paper card and parent pin at the COH.  

I'd extend this to merit badges too.  A troop that I was involved in had a large cache of MB cloth patches too.  

IMHO, it's sad that a registered scoutmaster or advancement chair can't build up a stockpile of cloth awards without circumventing BSA purchasing methods.  Maybe, BSA should have a rule that a troop can buy some amount in advance.  For example, each year able to buy a quantity (25% of their troop population) in any merit badge before receiving the advancement report.  It would require tracking a running quantity of MBs, but that's very possible these days.  

[qwazse]

I guess our troop never built up that backlog. Therefore, our immediate recognition was an "attaboy" at our troop closing. (Most BoR's are completed during troop meetings.) Then, we would disperse patches at the next CoH. We never used advancement pins. I don't think I've seen one in all our area. (Northeast Region Area 4 scouters, correct me if you have or know of a unit who issues pins.)

As far as cost, we factor in the average cost of advancement into the youth dues.

[scotteg83]

6 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I guess our troop never built up that backlog. Therefore, our immediate recognition was an "attaboy" at our troop closing. (Most BoR's are completed during troop meetings.) Then, we would disperse patches at the next CoH. We never used advancement pins. I don't think I've seen one in all our area. (Northeast Region Area 4 scouters, correct me if you have or know of a unit who issues pins.)

As far as cost, we factor in the average cost of advancement into the youth dues.

We used matching dues cost to my sons troop.  We didn't want to scare away anyone with a high number right off the bat.  Once fundraising kicks in, money wont be an issue.  But its the little things that a troop wants and does have.  We already have homemade neckers and slides.  All the girls had to buy unforms (luckily most got handy downs or used ones).  But our first campout in Maine is either going to have a high cost for a cabin, or a high cost for startup minimum equipment.

[scotteg83]

33 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That larger pin is not for immediate recognition, but is actually a Rank pin, worn on the pocket in lieu of the patch.Unless things have changed since I worked in supply,  it is a restricted item and needs an Advancement Report.  I remember the complaints we got about the First Class Rank Pin and the Campaign Hats and Expedition hats. The Insignia Guide stated youth wore the First Class Rank pin, but they could not buy it without providing paperwork. Saw many a Scout wear the Adult Universal Pin instead.

 

If you are a linked troop, see if the boys's troop can spot you some patches. If not, see if any of their Scouts will buys some "Replacements" to get your supply started.

See, thats what I get for assuming what the large pin was for.  Didn't even think about needing paperwork for that as well.

 

I will have to reach out to my advancement chair and see how many patches he really has, and if i can barrow some.  I was looking on ebay to see if there was any unused bulk rank deals

[Eagle94-A1]

11 hours ago, qwazse said:

I guess our troop never built up that backlog. Therefore, our immediate recognition was an "attaboy" at our troop closing. (Most BoR's are completed during troop meetings.) Then, we would disperse patches at the next CoH. We never used advancement pins. I don't think I've seen one in all our area. (Northeast Region Area 4 scouters, correct me if you have or know of a unit who issues pins.)

As far as cost, we factor in the average cost of advancement into the youth dues.

That's the pre-1989 way of doing  things; an "Attaboy" after the BOR and formal presentation of rank and all other awards at the COH. 

 

11 hours ago, fred8033 said:

IMHO, it's sad that a registered scoutmaster or advancement chair can't build up a stockpile of cloth awards without circumventing BSA purchasing methods.  Maybe, BSA should have a rule that a troop can buy some amount in advance.  For example, each year able to buy a quantity (25% of their troop population) in any merit badge before receiving the advancement report.  It would require tracking a running quantity of MBs, but that's very possible these days.  

Believe it or not, there is actually reasons for the restrictions. One reason  is that records need to be kept for verification purposes. Not every Scout shop follows the rules, and some do not require paperwork. So when the paperwork never gets turned in, there are problems later down the road.

Then you get parents trying to buy their kids rank. Not so much at the Scouts, BSA level, but plenty on the Cub Scout side.

Another is folks trying to make costumes for Halloween and Mardi Gras. We had 3 sorority girls from my university come to my Scout Shop and spent a long time shopping for a costume. When they came to check out, I asked to see their membership cards to purchase the uniforms ( yes once upon a time, you had to show your membership card to buy your uniform. It was mentioned in the book still, but not enforced)

[Eagle94-A1]

11 hours ago, scotteg83 said:

See, thats what I get for assuming what the large pin was for.  Didn't even think about needing paperwork for that as well.

 

I will have to reach out to my advancement chair and see how many patches he really has, and if i can barrow some.  I was looking on ebay to see if there was any unused bulk rank deals

In all seriousness, Get you existing troop to purchase "Replacements." You still need to fill out an Advancement Report, and need to use real names ( I also put real dates they earned them)

My Scout Shop supported a Direct Service Council troop. Their CO was a Fortune 500 company in my city, and they did quarterly orders for advancement which the company shipped. EVERY SINGLE ADVANCEMENT ITEM WAS A "REPLACEMENT." (emphasis). I had questions it and talked to my manager. She knew the story and it was OK'd.

[Treflienne]

How often do you hold a court of honor for the troop?

Is it a big deal, with families invited, and taking a whole troop meeting?   Is it a smaller affair, simply part of the opening or closing ceremony of a regular troop meeting?

If your troop has scouts wait till the COH to get their rank patches, how long of a wait is that?  a month?  six months?

 

[Treflienne]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That's the pre-1989 way of doing  things; an "Attaboy" after the BOR and formal presentation of rank and all other awards at the COH. 

What change happened in 1989?

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Believe it or not, there is actually reasons for the restrictions. One reason  is that records need to be kept for verification purposes. Not every Scout shop follows the rules, and some do not require paperwork. So when the paperwork never gets turned in, there are problems later down the road.

Then you get parents trying to buy their kids rank. Not so much at the Scouts, BSA level, but plenty on the Cub Scout side.

Another is folks trying to make costumes for Halloween and Mardi Gras. We had 3 sorority girls from my university come to my Scout Shop and spent a long time shopping for a costume. When they came to check out, I asked to see their membership cards to purchase the uniforms ( yes once upon a time, you had to show your membership card to buy your uniform. It was mentioned in the book still, but not enforced)

You are right and I understand your reasoning.  It's just sad troops can't have an inventory from which they can recognize quickly.

[ParkMan]

If you haven't yet, I'd give it a shot to see if you could purchase them legitimately.  I expect that it's the Scout Shop managers discretion to sell them or not.  I'd call them up and explain the situation and ask. If they say no - then ask if they have a process to accomplish something like this.  Maybe they"d let a district advancement chair ok it for example.  If they say no - then I would push a little, but not too much.  Next call would be to that district advancement chair.  Then council advancement chair.  Then DE, then SE.  Someone must have the pull to officially do what we all do unofficially.  I just would be nice in dealing with the Scout Shop managers so that no one gets backed into a corner.  

Good luck!