Merit badges for Venture and Sea Scouts

[an_old_DC]

Completely ageee with @qwazse on this. Over the years I have had a number of Venturers, iirc only males, earn MBs unrelated to rank advancement. It was usually Rifle, Shotgun and Climbing, and occasionally Hiking MB. These MB were all processed by the Crew Advancement Committee.

this is a huge gray area. I suspect it isn’t widely examined because most Venturers don’t care about advancement.

[HashTagScouts]

I'd actually like to see some of the elements of the Scouts BSA program better integrated into Venturing.  Discovery Award- why wouldn't the First Aid MB satisfy the requirements of this award? Is it we are concerned that the MB isn't being taught quite as it should be? The personal growth requirements for "Development of Faith"- why wouldn't the religious emblem program suffice? Why not have some basics such as Cooking MB/Camping MB as required?  

[John-in-KC]

On 2/7/2019 at 10:18 AM, qwazse said:

How, pray tell, would internet advancement "know" that you can order an MB for one venturer, and not another? I mean, there's no business logic for a troop that keeps them from ordering MBs for a pre-1st class scout? Is there business logic to tell me who is a "qualified venturer."

 

This is not difficult. Error checking in the advancement report process online should check the RANK of the Venturer. If rank =/= First Class, then reject MB from a venturing crew input. 

I don’t know the data table in Scout net, but I can guess them, and even I can write tis sql error statement...

[John-in-KC]

Moderator note:

moved to Advancement forum. 

[qwazse]

16 hours ago, John-in-KC said:

This is not difficult. Error checking in the advancement report process online should check the RANK of the Venturer. If rank =/= First Class, then reject MB from a venturing crew input. 

I don’t know the data table in Scout net, but I can guess them, and even I can write tis sql error statement...

@John-in-KC, are you suggesting that it is that way, or you think it should be that way?

@an_old_DC seems to be reporting (correct me if I'm wrong, AOD) that he was able to file advancement for MBs for some of his crew who never earned 1st class.

Thinking from scoutshop's perspective, they don't have to check if a troop is ordering badges for a scouts who haven't earned first class. If among those thousands of advancement reports, there's an order for MB's from a crew, why would they build in the business logic? Especially since that logic is not spelled out in the GTA?

In other words, there's no such thing as a "qualifying boy scout", so who would tell them that they have to check that an order is for "qualifying venturers" only?

[an_old_DC]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

 

@an_old_DC seems to be reporting (correct me if I'm wrong, AOD) that he was able to file advancement for MBs for some of his crew who never earned 1st class.

Thinking from scoutshop's perspective, they don't have to check if a troop is ordering badges for a scouts who haven't earned first class. If among those thousands of advancement reports, there's an order for MB's from a crew, why would they build in the business logic? Especially since that logic is not spelled out in the GTA?

In other words, there's no such thing as a "qualifying boy scout", so who would tell them that they have to check that an order is for "qualifying venturers" only?

Yes, that is correct. Male members of our crew routinely earned merit badges. One young man in particular earned a number of merit badges and he was not First Class.  Anyway, MB blue cards were given out by me as unit leader, signed by me as unit leader, submitted by the Crew's Advancement Chair, etc. it was all through the crew.

As far as I can tell, "qualifying Venturer" simply means they have paid their dues, are on the unit roster, and have appropriate Crew Leader signatures.

as an aside, no female members of the crew were ever interested in the MB itself, they simply shot guns, hiked, canoed and so on. For that matter, I would say most of the male members were not interested in MB either. But for those who were interested, we offered the opportunity.

Edited February 11, 2019 by an_old_DC

[John-in-KC]

Qwasze:  I don’t know. I’m saying the error checking would not be especially onerous as a technical matter. 

[Thunderbird]

The Guide to Advancement defines the term "qualified" Venturer or Sea Scout:

Quote

4.2.0.1 Scouting Ranks and Advancement Age Requirements
All Scouts BSA awards, merit badges, badges of rank, and Eagle Palms are only for registered Scouts, including Lone Scouts, and also for qualified Venturers or Sea Scouts who are not yet 18 years old. Venturers and Sea Scouts qualify by achieving First Class rank as a Scout or Lone Scout, or Varsity Scout (prior to January 1, 2018). The only exceptions for those older than age 18 are related to Scouts registered beyond the age of eligibility (“Registering Qualified Members Beyond Age of Eligibility,” 10.1.0.0) and those who have been granted time extensions to complete the Eagle Scout rank (“Time Extensions,” 9.0.4.0).

Anybody can complete the requirements [including me, and I am too old  LOL!  😛  ], but to officially earn the merit badge, rank, or Scouts BSA awards, one must be a registered Scout or Lone Scout [in the Scouts BSA program], or a qualified Venturer or Sea Scout.  Please note that the Sea Scout requirements do not say "earn the X merit badge", they say "complete the requirements" or "pass the requirements" for the X merit badge.

[qwazse]

37 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

The Guide to Advancement defines the term "qualified" Venturer or Sea Scout:

Anybody can complete the requirements [including me, and I am too old  LOL!  😛  ], but to officially earn the merit badge, rank, or Scouts BSA awards, one must be a registered Scout or Lone Scout [in the Scouts BSA program], or a qualified Venturer or Sea Scout.  Please note that the Sea Scout requirements do not say "earn the X merit badge", they say "complete the requirements" or "pass the requirements" for the X merit badge.

That's new. Thanks T-Bird!
There you have it, Mash. Loophole closed.

[mashmaster]

On 2/15/2019 at 7:34 PM, Thunderbird said:

The Guide to Advancement defines the term "qualified" Venturer or Sea Scout:

Anybody can complete the requirements [including me, and I am too old  LOL!  😛  ], but to officially earn the merit badge, rank, or Scouts BSA awards, one must be a registered Scout or Lone Scout [in the Scouts BSA program], or a qualified Venturer or Sea Scout.  Please note that the Sea Scout requirements do not say "earn the X merit badge", they say "complete the requirements" or "pass the requirements" for the X merit badge.

So, if I understand that statement, any Sea Scout can earn a merit badge as long as they have First Class rank.  They do not need to be part of a Scouts, BSA troop.

[Thunderbird]

40 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

So, if I understand that statement, any Sea Scout can earn a merit badge as long as they have First Class rank.  They do not need to be part of a Scouts, BSA troop.

 

Yes, a qualified Venturer or Sea Scouts is one who achieved First Class rank as a Scout or Lone Scout, or Varsity Scout (prior to January 1, 2018).  They have the option to continue earning Scouts BSA awards, ranks, and merit badges until their 18th birthday (assuming no time extension) while registered solely with a crew or ship.  They can be dual registered with a troop if they want to be, but it is not required.

[qwazse]

16 hours ago, mashmaster said:

So, if I understand that statement, any Sea Scout can earn a merit badge as long as they have First Class rank.  They do not need to be part of a Scouts, BSA troop.

Yep, @mashmaster. it's only a matter of the skipper being amenable to processing blue cards.

The only down side, I imagine, is if half the crew can be awarded MB's because they were in Scouts BSA, and half can't, and that bothers the youth. I've never known anything like that to bother youth. But, it's a big country.