How should I help my boy?

[Ranman328]

2 minutes ago, David CO said:

District Executives are not a reliable source of good information. This is a case in point. The Chartered Organization can suspend or revoke a boy's membership in the unit for just about any reason. The CO doesn't even have to give a reason. 

YP violations are not the only reason a scout could be dropped from a unit. For example, a scout could be dropped for not paying his dues. An incident form is only necessary if there was a specific YP incident that brought about the suspension or revocation.

 

Never said they couldn’t revoke or suspend a Scout, I did say they had to notify District and Council. 

[Ranman328]

4 minutes ago, David CO said:

District Executives are not a reliable source of good information. This is a case in point. The Chartered Organization can suspend or revoke a boy's membership in the unit for just about any reason. The CO doesn't even have to give a reason. 

YP violations are not the only reason a scout could be dropped from a unit. For example, a scout could be dropped for not paying his dues. An incident form is only necessary if there was a specific YP incident that brought about the suspension or revocation.

 

So you are telling me I should not contact or use the “PAID PROFESSIONAL SCOUTER” because they are unreliable?  That is a ridiculous statement. Who do you recommend Adult Leaders Contact?  

[qwazse]

9 minutes ago, Ranman328 said:

@qwazse why do you always pick and choose partial phrases to fit your narrative. I NEVER said council was to be involved in the suspension process. I said they have to be notified of a suspension. 

All I'm looking for is documentation to that effect. The G2SS tells me the unit may revoke membership. That's all.

Honestly, if the G2SS said notify anybody, I would have followed up with our key three to make sure it was done.

[David CO]

1 minute ago, Ranman328 said:

So you are telling me I should not contact or use the “PAID PROFESSIONAL SCOUTER” because they are unreliable?  

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. 

 

[David CO]

 

8 minutes ago, Ranman328 said:

Never said they couldn’t revoke or suspend a Scout, I did say they had to notify District and Council. 

Yes, that is what you said. It isn't true.

[David CO]

11 minutes ago, Ranman328 said:

Who do you recommend Adult Leaders Contact?  

Their Chartered Organization.

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, Ranman328 said:

Where are you getting this. I never said any of which you have stated above. I don’t think you would suspend a Scout for a disagreement or a knife incident or not cooperating with youth Leadership. You obviously have no training what so ever if you are going to put something like that in writing and maybe that is the reason why your Teoop would suspend a Scout for that. I suggest you read the Guide to Safe Scouting and review the forms in the back. I never said anything about notifying Council about any disciplinary decision. I said Revoking a Membership. Please read what I wrote before commenting!

 

7 hours ago, Ranman328 said:

Per the National Capital Area Council, which is my council, you must notify District and Council of any disciplinary actions taken by the troop to a scout.  Not sure what area you are from but this according to them has been BSA Policy for years.  If a Scout is a first time offender or is involved in a fight, I find it sad that a Troop would just suspend that scout without sitting him and his parents down for a discussion first.  Just my opinion. 

Your post was that you must notify the District or Council of any disciplinary action  That's where I got it.

If you are now indicating there are qualifiers that make make more sense

[Ranman328]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

All I'm looking for is documentation to that effect. The G2SS tells me the unit may revoke membership. That's all.

Honestly, if the G2SS said notify anybody, I would have followed up with our key three to make sure it was done.

Well according to my documentation from our District Scout Executive that @David CO says I should not follow because it is unreliable, yes, you should have notified your District and Council that you revoked a Youth BSA Membership. This apparently protects them as well as others from them re-registering.  Makes sense to me but apparently not to @David CO. 

[Ranman328]

2 hours ago, David CO said:

Their Chartered Organization.

They should have already been contacted immediately after the incident!

[jsychk]

19 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

It's tough -- basic safety is important, but the kids need some room.  Different people have very different tolerances for what is acceptable.  The word that jumps out to me in your paragraph above is "punish".  Giving instruction and setting boundaries is different from punishment.  I don't know if tree climbing is covered in BSA guidelines, but I can understand that it could be a safety hazard.  

Some people take it too far.  One of the former leaders in our troop that I did not get along with corrected my son for sliding his feet on an icy patch on the ground.  He was 12.  We said that it was micromanaging our son.  He claimed that our son could have gotten a concussion and brain damage if he fell.  I felt that that person wanted to bubble wrap my kid, and he was not SM or ASM (he was a my-way-only CC).  It was not his job to manage our son.  He got all huffy about safety, though.  Sliding on a little patch of ice!  

Different points of view, for sure.  You'll have to feel it out.

Also, I do not get a lot of info from my husband or sons on Boy Scouts.  It is frustrating and it took me a year to find a balance with learning how the troop works, and working out basic communication with my husband.  However, my spouse goes on all the trips and is an ASM so he is plugged in, I just don't get much of a download.  Your husband might be totally hands off and let the boy learn his own way.  That can work, but sometimes the kids need support.  

Actually, the former leader in your troop sounds like our "victim's" mother. My son said the mother would tell the scouts where to put their tents during a dispute among the scouts (including her son). My son thought it's their job to figure things out on their own. It sounds like if something doesn't go in the kid's way, he would go to his mother and his mother would interfere. Apparently, other scouts don't like it. Also, my son mentioned that the kid  has special need so maybe the mother tries to shelter him even more. I am not sure if this is true or not, but my son came home and told me many stories like these. I didn't interfere because 1) my husband was in charge of his scouting business; 2) I think my son should see different kinds of parents & learn how to handle them. 3) This does not cause any physical harm. 

My husband is the hand-off type, no doubt. That's also why I thought he is good for the job because my husband wouldn't be nervous like me when it comes to boy's adventures. However, he hasn't mastered the skills of parenting a pre-teen like flying a kite...let him explore a little but if he goes too far and may fall; you pull the string back...I think my husband just let the kite goes wherever the wind carries it...until it drops, so he had to drive to the camp and pick him up!  

Edited January 30, 2019 by jsychk

[Ranman328]

2 hours ago, David CO said:

 

Yes, that is what you said. It isn't true.

Please show me where I said that!!!!

[jsychk]

6 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

There seems to be a lot of unaddressed gaps in here. I think there needs to be some conversations and common understanding before any progress can be made.

Examples:

You said your husband doesn't get involved in meetings or go on campouts. Unlike Cubs, Scouts utilize registered leaders to take on those duties. Scouts are a different level. Not every parent is willing, capable, or needed as an active participant in Troop activities. A conversation with leadership on the boundaries of parental involvement and leadership requirements along with program aims and methods and the current Troop leadership situation seems to be in order so everyone knows what is possible and what is needed.

@David_CO was right when he said there was a disconnect between you and your husband on Scouting. At some point you are going to have to have that talk and figure out what each of you are able and willing to do in furtherance of your son's involvement in Scouting. Maybe it's as simple as getting him to meetings and events and providing support and encouragement. Maybe it's more. But you have to hash this out, come to an understanding, and work from there. Families that have disparate feelings on Scouting rarely produce the best experience for the Scout.

The best unit in the world isn't going to be able to help your son if the family foundation in regards to Scouting isn't solid. While this may all sound harsh, it is better to face unpleasant truths and address them if you truly want your son to be involved and excel as much as possible.

I totally understand the importance of the family foundation, but what if the dad doesn't lead and is not being proactive? How long should I wait? After a few years, I figured out my husband is not teaching the boys "the guy stuff" along the way, I have to step in one way or the other. 

First of all, I don't think my husband is against Scouting. He just doesn't seem to care either way. He knows what I choose for our boys is good for them.  Secondly, my son seems to have a good time camping and hanging out with his friends. It is possible that my kids may not reach to the Eagle (two dedicated parents surely help!) but I still appreciate what he learns in the process. 

Sadly, I see more and more dads are like that now. I don't know why. Almost 10 years, most of our Pack leaders were male/dads. If there's a female/mom, it's ONLY because her husband is in the military overseas or she is a single mom. Now, our Pack has a few moms whose husbands are around but never step up to volunteer or be the leaders. 

[Pale Horse]

6 hours ago, Ranman328 said:

Please show me where I said that!!!!

Dude! Please tell me you're joking.

Ranman328:  Posts something.

DavidCO: Quotes your post in his reply.

Ranman328: "Tell me where I said that."

lol

Edited January 30, 2019 by Pale Horse

[WisconsinMomma]

9 hours ago, jsychk said:

Actually, the former leader in your troop sounds like our "victim's" mother. My son said the mother would tell the scouts where to put their tents during a dispute among the scouts (including her son). My son thought it's their job to figure things out on their own. It sounds like if something doesn't go in the kid's way, he would go to his mother and his mother would interfere. Apparently, other scouts don't like it. Also, my son mentioned that the kid  has special need so maybe the mother tries to shelter him even more. I am not sure if this is true or not, but my son came home and told me many stories like these. I didn't interfere because 1) my husband was in charge of his scouting business; 2) I think my son should see different kinds of parents & learn how to handle them. 3) This does not cause any physical harm. 

2

Based on what you are saying, I would suggest go visiting with other Troops in your area to make your life easier.  Your son can find a new group of buddies to hang with and he will learn and grow more in a real patrol environment.

[WisconsinMomma]

8 hours ago, jsychk said:

Sadly, I see more and more dads are like that now. I don't know why. Almost 10 years, most of our Pack leaders were male/dads. If there's a female/mom, it's ONLY because her husband is in the military overseas or she is a single mom. Now, our Pack has a few moms whose husbands are around but never step up to volunteer or be the leaders. 

 

Something is up with younger generations doing less volunteering.  That said, we do have helicopter parents, and free-range parents, so I'm not sure what's going on.  But the trend is on.  I think there is less of a civic duty to volunteering and community involvement than there used to be.  People move around more and spend more time online, so less time out in their neighborhoods.  Not much we can do except be the change we want to see in the world.  Good luck with your Scouting adventure and thanks for all you have done for the Cubs!!