youth application question

[thrifty]

wasn't sure where to put this. 

Does filling out a youth application count towards BSA membership numbers or local executive recruitment goals of some kind?

Took my 14yo Life scout to a Venturing meeting.  This crew was advertised as having an emphasis on specific areas that my son has an interest in.  The recruitment meeting was poorly planned and very confusing with almost no talk about what they do.  Anyway, my son did not want to join the crew based on that meeting and so neither one of us filled out an application.  The local BSA executive saw that we were not filling out the paperwork and made an announcement that filling out the application will give the crew contact info for everyone and to not worry about any other specifics until they start asking for money.  My son is already in the BSA so his fee would be waived but I'm not going to submit an application for him when he isn't sure about the crew.  I've become a terrible cynic as I've grown older and I was wondering if the executive was encouraging us to fill out an application because it would somehow increase enrollment numbers or something.  I can imagine that my son would be listed as belonging in a crew that he may never see again.  Someone please tell me I'm wrong. thx

[T2Eagle]

Broadly, it's easier to get applications at the first meeting than it is to chase people for paperwork later.  I always do this when recruiting new cubs.  I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble with people who are already scouts because they likely are more familiar with our processes and a little bit easier to squeeze paperwork out of.

 

[qwazse]

Yeah, I once chastised one DE at a council venturing committee for wasting our time with lists of paper crews.

I never asked a scout to fill out a crew application on the spot. Being in my crew was a real commitment. I was blunt about the time commitment. I insisted that the scout complete his own application and told them they were to get their parent's signature only after they had talked about what they were signing up for.

Thank you for not wasting your council registrar's time.

[RememberSchiff]

Well done.

[Eagle94-A1]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:21 AM, thrifty said:

Does filling out a youth application count towards BSA membership numbers or local executive recruitment goals of some kind?

Yes it does count towards membership goals for professionals. And some pros will do some "creative" recruiting. 😠 

[Jameson76]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:21 AM, thrifty said:

Does filling out a youth application count towards BSA membership numbers or local executive recruitment goals of some kind?

My son is already in the BSA so his fee would be waived 

Yes - That is how the DE and FD and SE are in fact judged, number increases.  Your son in this example is the easiest way to pump up the numbers..."dual" enrollment.  That's two members for the price of one.

Yes there are shenanigans with the membership numbers.  Sadly rather than focus on building good units with a fun and quality program, which will generate growth and membership in the long term, they want the numbers NOW, so sign them up NOW.

[Eagledad]

11 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Yes - That is how the DE and FD and SE are in fact judged, number increases.  Your son in this example is the easiest way to pump up the numbers..."dual" enrollment.  That's two members for the price of one.

Yes there are shenanigans with the membership numbers.  Sadly rather than focus on building good units with a fun and quality program, which will generate growth and membership in the long term, they want the numbers NOW, so sign them up NOW.

And this is why I don't trust published membership numbers. I will even give the pros the benefit of the doubt and say there are no shenanigans going on, but the shuffling of memberships in different units at different times of the years blurs out reality. It drives the district member committees nuts, especially if when using the numbers to plan program gains and looses like Tigers, Webelos Crossovers, and first year Scout dropouts. 

I don't trust the new girls published numbers as a result of my experience. Just look at the discussions on this forum to see how those numbers are being used both tactically and motivationally for future planning. National got away with inaccuracies in the past because the deep pockets funding and large membership compensated for bad program planning. But the BSA may have lost their safety nets. 

Good luck. 

Barry

[shortridge]

48 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Just look at the discussions on this forum to see how those numbers are being used both tactically and motivationally for future planning. 

What do you mean by this, Barry?

[Eagledad]

11 minutes ago, shortridge said:

What do you mean by this, Barry?

Many here have expressed how the successful recruiting is motivational for progressing forward. Several have commented how they plan to implement the girls and the leaders into units, and types of units. 

Barry

[shortridge]

4 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Many here have expressed how the successful recruiting is motivational for progressing forward. Several have commented how they plan to implement the girls and the leaders into units, and types of units. 

Barry

Is that a bad thing?

[carebear3895]

6 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Yes - That is how the DE and FD and SE are in fact judged, number increases.  Your son in this example is the easiest way to pump up the numbers..."dual" enrollment.  That's two members for the price of one.

Yes there are shenanigans with the membership numbers.  Sadly rather than focus on building good units with a fun and quality program, which will generate growth and membership in the long term, they want the numbers NOW, so sign them up NOW.

This is wrong. A "multiple" registrant doesn't count as two as far as membership goes. If a kid is registered in a Troop and a Crew, he only counts once with traditional membership. Plus the way the database is setup, you literally can't set up two membership accounts for one person. Heck, that's even why a lot of DE's hate recruiting Venturers out of Troops because it doesn't increase membership.  

Trust me, I 100% get Professionals fudge numbers, but this isn't an example of that. You know, some of us actually do our job correctly and ethically.

Edited January 23, 2019 by carebear3895

[Eagledad]

17 minutes ago, shortridge said:

Is that a bad thing?

Good or Bad? The discussion isn't about making good or bad decisions. It's about the accuracy of information being provided for making decisions.

Barry

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Trust me, I 100% get Professionals fudge numbers, but this isn't an example of that. You know, some of us actually do our job correctly and ethically.

True, but who goes where and when can be confusing for unit level volunteers. One example is the Webelos requirement to fill out a Troop application and talk to a SM. Not a big deal on the surface, but some Scoutmasters might submit those applications, not realizing (or don't care), that the Webelos is no longer a member of the pack. And officially the scout can no longer earn anymore badges, like AOL. Luckily, council goes in a fixes the problem. But, the numbers are shifted.

That's not too bad, but where the numbers really get messed around are the new Scouts joining the troops. In reality, the scout submitted the troop application without ever showing up. That scout will be counted as a successful crossover and stay on the books for possibly up to a year. Same goes with Troop to Venturing. That can change the troop membership numbers as much as 5% in a district, and more in a unit. Add it up for a council, or even the nation, and it influences decisions.

I know the Council Pros get acussed of fudging the numbers for their own benefit, but I always had compassion for them having to run around looking for the holes in their numbers. 

Barry