My kids love scouts, but....

[David CO]

27 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

I have found that by learning to show the children love, rather than constantly telling them what to do (or worse, what NOT to do), those kids can become our most successful future leaders.

I'm afraid I have to agree with you there.  They might very well be our future leaders.  By all appearances, our current national leaders were raised by people who never taught them what to do and what not to do.  I think this is a big part of the problem with the world today.

 

[David CO]

44 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

The children who display the worst behaviors  are those that need Scouting the most, and I have found that by learning to show the children love, rather than constantly telling them what to do (or worse, what NOT to do), those kids can become our most successful future leaders. 

Love and discipline are not mutually exclusive.  We can love children and still discipline them.

 

[fred8033]

53 minutes ago, CommishJulian said:

...  little monsters need to be shown the door. ..

Qualifying statements:  I don't believe youth are good or bad.  There are behaviors, maturity, distractions and other issues that are incompatible with scouting.

Response: 

• Leaders need to address bad behavior.  It's infectious.  It drives scouts away and can earn your troop a bad reputation.
• Leaders need to ask scouts to move on if the scout can't behave within the boundaries of scouting.  Packs or troops.  Depending the behavior, troops that keep such scouts are accepting a lot of risk and taking on responsibility often beyond their experience. 

My concern is safety and my personal responsibility.  Am I willing to take responsibility.  Am I going to have the church pastor tell me someone broke a bathroom stall or broke in somewhere they did not belong?  Am I going to be able to trust scouts on campouts with fire, knives, fuel, etc where I won't be able to oversee them all the time?  I need to sleep.  Will I be able to trust those scouts at 2am to not cause trouble or endanger themselves?  

I cringe hearing "if any scout needs scouting, that scout does".  It's truism.  Scouting teaches values and behavior that the most problematic scouts often lack.  ... But when incidents happen and parents say "if any kid needs scouting, that kid needs scouting", it's often their very own kids that stop attending because they are scared of the other kid or don't want to be associated with the other kid.  ... Some leaders have a gift to work with such scouts.  I'm not sure if I'm such a leader. 

 

Story:  We had a problem scout one year.  Came in with 12 to 15 new scouts.  I had to ask him to move on 18 months later, but not before losing almost all of those new scouts and breaking our recruiting relationship with that pack.   And many of the scouts that left were scouts of parents that said "if any scout needs scouting that scout does."

[InquisitiveScouter]

8 minutes ago, David CO said:

Love and discipline are not mutually exclusive.  We can love children and still discipline them.

 

@David CO  We can go further...you cannot love without discipline.  They are mutually inclusive.

Proverbs 13:24 (among others)

[TAHAWK]

Rearing a child so that he or she has no concept of consequences for conduct does no one a favor.  

[CommishJulian]

In a year or two, scouting may be a thing of the past. 

For me, I've given up and adapted.  I bring all my old Cub Scout equipment to pods of regular kids doing group home-schooling.  Kids are kids, weather they're in Scouting or not.  I get to bring magic into their lives (one of three PWD tracks, space derby rig, balloon launcher, activities, etc), and I'll never have to deal with another belligerent "I was an EAGLE SCOUT!" dad ever again.  -Their jedi mind tricks don't work any more.

Ya I copped out, but now that I don't ever have to deal with a little monster ever again, there's very little to entice me back into the good-ole-boy club.  My point is: Why would I ever go back to a place where a kid was able to bully another because pops was someone important in the BSA?  And THAT is why kids are not in scouting like before.  -In my opinion.

[CommishJulian]

While I seem to be super negative all the time, let me say that I truly appreciate this site and all your inputs.  This is the only truly free forum about Scouting I've ever seen.  Thank you for that.  

All the best friends.  Julian