Irate potential cubmaster

[DuctTape]

2 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

As others have said, he isn't the CM.  Perhaps I missed it, but do you have someone you want to be CM, is qualified and willing to do the job?

I would send him an email explaining to him the several reasons why he is NOT CM.  Then have your meetings without inviting him.

If this is not going to work, then it might be time to move on as you said. It takes courage to stand and fight, but you might need to decide this battle is not one for you and your son.  You can't fight it alone.  If you don't have support in the pack, then move on.

I wish you well.  

I would have this come from the COR. I would also include that he is not an approved leader and since he does not have a child in the program he is not welcome to attend pack/den events. If he shows up, then he will be escorted out and (if necessary) the authorities will be called. 

Yes, the COR and you need to be this firm. He is trying to take advantage of your willingness to "work things out". Nothing less than a complete prohibition from attendance. 

[69RoadRunner]

46 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

I would have this come from the COR. I would also include that he is not an approved leader and since he does not have a child in the program he is not welcome to attend pack/den events. If he shows up, then he will be escorted out and (if necessary) the authorities will be called. 

Yes, the COR and you need to be this firm. He is trying to take advantage of your willingness to "work things out". Nothing less than a complete prohibition from attendance. 

Even better.

[Cleveland Rocks]

Regardless of whether you or anyone else signs this application--and you'd have to be off your rockers at this point if you did that--this application won't make it past the registrar's desk, for reasons that you mentioned in your original post. This person refuses to sign the religious principles declaration, he refuses to authorize a background check, and has admitted there are some issues that would potentially preclude his application from being accepted. That alone should make things a non-starter.

The mistake, I think, happened, when you called a committee meeting, then had this person take over the meeting, dismiss the committee, and run the show.  You need to remember that YOU are in charge. Always will be, even after you get a Cubmaster. The Committee Chair and the Chartered Organization Rep are the two who are in charge of the unit.  You have the ultimate authority over the hiring and firing.

And I don't think it would be a good idea to have his girlfriend become the Cubmaster, because we all know she will just be the puppet Cubmaster with the boyfriend calling all the shots.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Cleveland Rocks

[Eagle94-A1]

We had a DL who tried to take over. It got bad fast. Long story short we got the DE, COR, CC, CM, and the SM ( this DL also started on the SM as well) involved. A letter was written to her and  the council registrar, with a cc to the Scout Exec, stating A) that her services as a DL were no longer needed with the pack, and B) she was no longer allowed on on the church's property. I believe a restraining order barring her from the church was done as well. This was her 2nd pack in my district.

From dealing with the problem above, and dealing with parents trying to take over a Scout troop, if you do not nip it in the bud now, the problem will get worse. People will leave because of him. Problem above was nipped in the bud, and nobody left. The parents problem was left to fester for over a year, and families have left or are considering leaving.

[perdidochas]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:01 AM, Devotedautismadhdmom said:

I am the Committee Chair for my unit. Background, my unit is 4 years old. The last 15 months, I have worked massive hours restructuring our broken unit. Starting from ground zero. We just got into our new charter. Have a parent interested in being cubmaster. He spend his days googling cub scouts and tgings to do. We have explained, being we are the unit for the 2 low income schools, we do things that require little to no money, aka low income unit. 

I came into last meeting, starting give parents upcoming dates and need to knows. He keeps interrupting me telling me I am wrong and arguing with me. Then he gets up and says I need to leave, I have no business there (my son is a bear), I am not running anything right. I stop him and yell him he needs to meet me upstairs to talk with our COR. He proceeded to verbally attack me, say I am being investigated, my only role is to shut my mouth and do things as he says, etc. I have worked along side our district executive to restart our unit. Had I done anything wrong, they would have not aloud us to just sign up with a new charter, that they were there for. 

The COR informed him that he was not to be doing some of the things he is doing, as at this time, he is not an approved leader. He chose not to sign on the religious principles requirement,  or fill out the background check authorization. We attempted to ask about his previous possession charge and he got more irate. He had the COR shaking, as well as myself with his actions. He then went down and individually spoke to each parent, aside from the ones that has been there the prior year, smearing myself and the COR. 

Myself, 2 veteran DLs, and the COR are not comfortable having our next meeting tomorrow with him there.  

Myself and the COR set up a meeting with our DE, which later he cancelled. Said our committee chair would be calling me the next day. I wasn't happy with that, as he was not in any of the talks with the potential CM, had never met or talked with him. We wanted the conversation between the DE and CM to be discussed. The DE now says he will be out for the week. 

My COR is first, saying he needs to apologize first and foremost to me. Second, we are both not comfortable with his actions in front of children. Also, she is concerned with his possession charge. As am I. We can only take his word, but have no way of knowing if that is still his lifestyle. We are unsure of what to do at this point. My anxiety is up so high about our meeting tomorrow night, not having been able to talk to anyone yet. Do we contact our field services person? He know sone of what is happening, and is the one that helped me get out of our Charter and into a new, along with all the transitions. But haven't had much contact since we got our new home. 

 

Well, per the rules, he's never been the CM.  I would say that the COR needs to tell him he's not welcome and I go with what DuctTape said.  

Edited January 16, 2019 by perdidochas

[ParkMan]

9 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

We had a DL who tried to take over. It got bad fast. Long story short we got the DE, COR, CC, CM, and the SM ( this DL also started on the SM as well) involved. A letter was written to her and  the council registrar, with a cc to the Scout Exec, stating A) that her services as a DL were no longer needed with the pack, and B) she was no longer allowed on on the church's property. I believe a restraining order barring her from the church was done as well. This was her 2nd pack in my district.

From dealing with the problem above, and dealing with parents trying to take over a Scout troop, if you do not nip it in the bud now, the problem will get worse. People will leave because of him. Problem above was nipped in the bud, and nobody left. The parents problem was left to fester for over a year, and families have left or are considering leaving.

This is one of those personally challenging times as a CC.  What us really going on here is that this fellow is challenging that the basic operating model of the pack.  You, as CC, need to do the very unpleasant thing and take a very hard, firm line here.  No meetings, no discussions, no committee involvement.  You simply talk one-on-one with the COR and follow through on your decision as the CC.  His involvement with the pack is terminated.  Send him a registered letter and inform the rest of the pack leadership.  My email would be as simple as:

Quote

Pack leaders,

Upon review of recent events I have reached the conclusion that Bob Smith will not be serving as Cubmaster of our pack.  I thank Bob for volunteering and his involvement with the Pack.  I wish him all the best going forward.

Best regards,

CC

You can communicate it to the district, council, or whatever.  But, frankly it doesn't matter.  You, as CC, are in charge.  You make the decision and that's that.

[Eagle94-A1]

16 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

You can communicate it to the district, council, or whatever.  But, frankly it doesn't matter.  You, as CC, are in charge.  You make the decision and that's that.

I strongly recommend you inform council,. That way they can get off your charter ASAP, and can have their access to SCOUTBOOK, and unit related online sources terminated. Grant you, the "CM" is not even registered,but it is a good idea. The DL that was removed has access to the pack's Be.A.Scout.org info, Internet Advancement. and other stuff. It got really crazy.

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I strongly recommend you inform council,. That way they can get off your charter ASAP, and can have their access to SCOUTBOOK, and unit related online sources terminated. Grant you, the "CM" is not even registered,but it is a good idea. The DL that was removed has access to the pack's Be.A.Scout.org info, Internet Advancement. and other stuff. It got really crazy.

Right - but I don't think he was even registered at all.  If he was registered and you need to remove him - then of course you need to ask council to do that.

[Eagle94-A1]

7 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Right - but I don't think he was even registered at all.  If he was registered and you need to remove him - then of course you need to ask council to do that.

Correct, he was not registered. But he may try to submit the application directly to the council.  I know that applications missing signatures will sometimes slip by. And I know of a case where the signatures were forged.

[SSScout]

Devotedautismadhdmom:   I think I finally read your whole nom de forum.  I think I understand more and your dedication is to be applauded.

To my mind, here is the final tally (I hope I have all the details right) :  1)  You are the CCh for your Cub's Pack. 2) You were instrumental in the rebuilding of the Pack from a near abandonment to a well functioning Cub Pack. 3) Some new folks came along, and the male of the couple wants to be a Scout Leader, and because of a lack of CubMaster, assumed that role.  3) He refuses to fill out a proper application as a Scout leader, in that he will not allow a background check or Youth Protection Training, agree to other requirements.  He is, therefore NOT a Scout Leader, in name or position. 4) He is argumentative and tries to take over things, regardless of the situation. 5) He will not discuss, only declare. There is a difference, yes?  6) He seems to want the best for his (?) girlfriend's boy, but not necessarily for anyone else's. Have I understood that correctly?   7) You have discussed the situation with the CO's IH and COR. and the District Executive and Commissioner.  Is that correct?     8 ) Just about everyone (COR, IH, Parents,) agrees he is the problem, not you.  9) You have heard much sympathy and advice here on Scouter dot com.    NOW. . . 10)  Letters must be written. Emails must be sent. To the wannabe CM, yes?   There must be agreement between and signatures from you, the COR and that is all that is necessary.  Copies sent to the Council Scout Executive, the District Executive and... ?   The wannabe Cub Master must be told he is NOT the Cub master.  YOU must find a REAL one, who is registered, trained,  enthusiastic. If the wannabe CM will not abide by the CO's decision, you have more legal things to consider.  A no trespass order...   For that , you may need a lawyer and the clerk of the court.  

I wish you well.  See you on the trail... 

[Devotedautismadhdmom]

The commissioner and a couple others don't want us to dismiss him. But, to add to his negative points....he keeps conducting things on his own, and his application has not been submitted! And they are ok with this! Then, I found pictures he posted of him watching a 4th grade webelo cutting her derby car! Am I wrong, NO cub Scout is allowed to operate power tools? One of the den leaders said the same thing when she just saw it on her training. He has since removed the post, but I have screenshots of the pictures. 

[DuctTape]

16 minutes ago, Devotedautismadhdmom said:

The commissioner and a couple others don't want us to dismiss him. But, to add to his negative points....he keeps conducting things on his own, and his application has not been submitted! And they are ok with this! Then, I found pictures he posted of him watching a 4th grade webelo cutting her derby car! Am I wrong, NO cub Scout is allowed to operate power tools? One of the den leaders said the same thing when she just saw it on her training. He has since removed the post, but I have screenshots of the pictures. 

What the others want is immaterial. The COR makes the call. 

[Cleveland Rocks]

Time to run this further up the food chain. I think you, your COR and your Chartered Organization head should contact your Council Executive and make that person aware of what is happening, and that this is happening with the blessing of one of their unit commissioners.

There's no "dismissing" necessary. This person is not a registered adult, so there is no dismissal that needs to take place.

And yes, you are correct, Scouts are not permitted to operate power tools per the Guide to Safe Scouting, "Age Guidelines for Tool Use and Work at Elevations or Excavations." You must be 18 or older to operate power saws and other power cutting tools, and 14 or older for most other power tools.

[sst3rd]

Devote,

The more people you get involved with this, the more this guy realizes you are weak and confused. He isn't even a member yet. As the CC, and evidently you have the support of the COR, you have the responsibility and power to remove this person from your meetings and site. Do it NOW. You need nothing else.

If you feel he needs to be legally restricted from the meetings and site, get the COR to proceed with that. Then get going forward with your program.

 

sst3rd

[SSScout]

""The commissioner and a couple others don't want us to dismiss him. ""   He has dismissed himself.

If he has not signed the application, allowed the back checking, done the training, and been approved by the COR and IH, he is not a Scouter and cannot be Cubmaster.

If he does not "play well with others", has a problem with rules and regs, ,,,,,,

What else is there to know?   The child involved is the loser, understood, but Mr. "Smith", and his lady friend must play by the rules. Smile as you hand him the letter....