Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

[gblotter]

3 hours ago, mashmaster said:

It was us and Saudi Arabia that were boys only.

I can’t decide if that comment is more stupid or offensive.

Are you too stupid to recognize that Scouting has been available to girls in America for more than 100 years? It’s called Girl Scouts USA.

Or is your intent to deliberately insult the GSUSA organization by somehow pretending they are not “real” Scouts?

[Oldscout448]

31 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

As Mark Twain said "reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

There are something like 2,000,000 youth enrolled in BSA programs today.  Over 99,000 units as well . The BSA is far from being on it's last legs and it's demise is not imminent.  Out district and others around us have seen growth in the last two years.

It's convenient to say "the leadership of the BSA is incompetent."  I would argue that if anything, the leadership of the BSA in the past few years has been bold and is showing leadership to build the organization and make it stronger."  Yes the BSA is losing the LDS church.  It was a misapplication of the Scouting program to align it as the youth program for one faith.  The leadership made the bold move to invite girls to join.  They are being proactive and trying to set the organization up for the future.

My opinion is that the pessimism we see here on the forum has more to do with people who dislike recent choices by the BSA looking for opportunities to be critical of the program.

When the founders of Scouting started the program, there were not 2,000,000 members and almost 100,000 units.  They believed in the program and built it up.  They didn't bemoan the policies of the BSA, they make Scouting in their communities fun.

 

I would love to start a patrol or three of eager scouts,  go hiking, fishing, canoeing, and other fun and challenging activities,  as long as National and Council left us alone.

[Oldscout448]

26 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I can’t decide if that comment is more stupid or offensive.

Are you too stupid to recognize that Scouting has been available to girls in America for more than 100 years? It’s called Girl Scouts USA.

Or is your intent to deliberately insult the GSUSA organization by somehow pretending they are not “real” Scouts?

A scout is courteous 

[mashmaster]

49 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I can’t decide if that comment is more stupid or offensive.

Are you too stupid to recognize that Scouting has been available to girls in America for more than 100 years? It’s called Girl Scouts USA.

Or is your intent to deliberately insult the GSUSA organization by somehow pretending they are not “real” Scouts?

As a father of Girls that were in the Girl Scout program and a person who was a registered Girl Scout leader, I am fully aware of the program and what it offers.  I am also fully aware of the fact that the programs are vastly different and provide different opportunities.  The comment was neither stupid or offensive.  It is you that decided to interpret it that way and try to shout me down for having a different opinion than yours.  

There is more than own religion in this country as well for more than 100 years.  Is it offensive or stupid to say that it is ok that there are Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans, LDS members, Jews,....  What fits own person doesn't mean that there isn't room for the other.

I hope you have a good day.

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then, let's move the discussion forward. Thanks,

RS

[Cambridgeskip]

As I understand it Chapter 11 bankruptcy with you is the equivalent of what we would call "administration" here, effectively it puts the brakes on everything and gives the organisation an opportunity to negotiate a rescue deal with its creditors. Of course that can be a two edged sword but is a long way from liquidation.

Nevertheless this is clearly serious and you have my sympathies. I do hope it doesn't result in BSA losing its crown jewel camp sites, those are the kind of places that once they are gone they are goe.

[TuckahoeJoe]

4 hours ago, ParkMan said:

They are weighing their options.  What would you have them say differently?

I had to search online to find out what was the underlying cause for the pre-prepared damage control email from the CSE---transparency, not so much.  The CSE never mentioned BK or the law firm.  We learned more from WSJ.

[qwazse]

8 hours ago, mashmaster said:

 ... They pretty much knew they were going to add girls, writing was on the wall.  It was us and Saudi Arabia that were boys only.  ...

And Pakistan. Why does everyone forget one of the larger and faster growing scout associations?

[Eagle1993]

It’s not the end of a National office if BSA does proceed with bankruptcy.  I think BSA could protect anything that generates net income and is critical to their continued existence... which I think would include the  HA camps they own; however, I’m not 100% sure on that and I’m concerned that a judge would decide if they have to sell Philmont.

I’m also concerned for the employees.  It seems like typically the highest level employees (and highest paid) are rarely impacted as much as lower level (and in my view more critical) ones.  Pensions, benefits and salaries could be at risk... I hope any impact would be minimal.  

My understanding is that this would force all lawsuits to stall and into settlement talks.  I would expect BSA would setup a victims fund similar to the Catholic Church.   I hope that fund is large enough to cause significant pain to BSA so they ensure our organization never Harbors those creeps again.  

I believe this will also halt the damages aspect of the GSUSA lawsuit.   Perhaps that will force the two organizations to figure out how BSA can add girls without causing massive confusion with GSUSA.  

Finally, I hope this would then be a new beginning.  BSA could look at using this to stop (or at least minimize) making decisions based solely on insurance actuaries and income.   They can put the threat of massive litigation and bad contracts behind them and hopefully restructure.... ensuring more funds remain local and keeping overhead down.  

One can hope....

[dkurtenbach]

The Boy Scouts of America national organization is not the Scouting Movement, nor are the local councils. The Scouting Movement is made up of the youth and their volunteer leaders out there in the schools and church basements and hiking trails and canoes and food pantries and local parades.  Families join local troops and packs because they are drawn in by the good reports of their friends and neighbors and a yearning to do something meaningful.  Scouting existed in America well before the Boy Scouts of America was incorporated.

Maybe this is an opportunity to remember that Scouting does not emanate from Irving, Texas, or even from local council offices.  Maybe this is an opportunity to remember that the game of Scouting was originally played with hand-me-down military uniforms and hand-crafted equipment, in fields and parks and meeting spaces open to the public, with one simple guidebook for implementing a simple idea.  That idea is as valid today as when it was first tested in the early years of the last century, and is needed as much or more now as it was then.  And it is not at all dependent upon some corporation's financial woes.

Edited December 13, 2018 by dkurtenbach

[scoutldr]

Speculations on what would cease to exist if  "National" went away and left it up to the Councils, as some are hoping for:

All program publications. Handbooks, MB pamphlets, forms, etc.

All National Supply items.  Uniforms, branded items, equipment.

Centrally developed and managed training programs.

National Jamboree

High Adventure bases, including Sea Base and Bechtel Reserve

Philmont

 

anything else?

 

 

 

 

[Eaglein87]

This comment needs to be directed at National not the local folks that are keeping things going during their total failure of leadership.

[69RoadRunner]

Employee pensions appear to be protected from bankruptcy.

https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/on-retirement/2010/12/14/what-happens-to-my-pension-if-my-company-goes-bankrupt-

It looks like a lot of possible outcomes and we can only speculate. I hope the post about the HA camps being in trusts that are protected is true. I guess this is where good lawyers help an organization protect its assets in cases like this.

I would imagine that this will drive up the cost of liability insurance for BSA. We might shake our heads at some of the new YPT rules, but at my church, we had to watch a video on youth protection that was required by the church's insurance company. I would think BSA's insurance company would be expecting a strong youth protection program to reduce lawsuits.

I just hope that BSA has good leadership and good advisers for how to best navigate these troubled waters.  I also hope that the exposure of past abuses in BSA and other organizations leads to much better protection for kids.

[Jameson76]

Curious if anyone has had any direct comments or feedback from their local councils?  I wonder is the local councils were in the loop before the CSE e-mail or did it just roll into the inboxes at the office like it did ours?

Not sure if the councils will try to do some damage control or hunker down.

[Eaglein87]

Crickets from ours and we are one of the largest troops in one of the biggest Councils in country.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Eaglein87