use of the word "Lord" in scouting?

[Terasec]

am just curious on the use of the word "Lord"

in scouting I try to keep all religious references as generic as possible to appeal to as many religions as possible,

as we have various religious backgrounds in our pack.

for Grace I try to use same grace the scout camp uses at summer camp

as follows:

"father for this noonday meal , we would speak the praise we feel., Health and strength we have from thee. help us Lord to faithful be."

as a catholic "Lord" has a very specific meaning referring to Jesus

curious as to how other religions view the term "Lord"

do other religions use the term "Lord" ? what does it mean to them?

 

 

 

[SSScout]

Transferring this worthy question to the Faith and Chaplaincy Forum.... oh, wait....

 

[Treflienne]

Who can create new Forums or subforums?   Besides topics in "Faith and Chaplaincy",  we are also seeing more topics suitable for the also-yet-to-be-created "Starting a new Scouts BSA girls' troop - practical how-to's" forum or subforum.

I'd also be interested in a "Faith and Chaplaincy" forum.   That aspect of BSA is currently absent from that other scouting organization in which I have spent a lot of years.  I'm curious about best practises and other scouters' experiences.   To what degree and how can you encourage the scouts to take their families' faiths seriously (or at least what can you do not to discourage them from taking their families' faiths seriously), without stepping over a line into promoting a specific religion.

[WonderBoy]

As a Pack sponsored by the PTO of our local elementary school, and with a diverse (as we can get in my area) group of backgrounds, I avoid the use of the word "Lord" altogether.

And I wouldn't use the term "father" either so as not to offend the goddesses.

[qwazse]

Excellent topic, and ideal for Cub Scouts or Open Program!

A rather fresh off the plane Saudi was trying to be polite in our company and used the phrase "God Jesus" in our company. (I think he intended to say "Lord Jesus" but had not learned how to translate either upper or lower case terms, yet. Regardless, even the lowercase "lord", which is a different word in Arabic, is not used among muslims.) I made it clear that he didn't have to do that for our sake, and that Allah most certainly would rather us use terms of endearment that we are convinced are true, until such time He convinces us of the truth of other titles.

Pray how you were taught. If The Spirit is convicting you that you should do something differently, talk to your clergyman and consult your scripture. You are calling upon a Higher Power. Using anything less than the terms you were taught to call upon is denying us the blessing you were taught to give.

[perdidochas]

2 hours ago, Terasec said:

am just curious on the use of the word "Lord"

in scouting I try to keep all religious references as generic as possible to appeal to as many religions as possible,

as we have various religious backgrounds in our pack.

for Grace I try to use same grace the scout camp uses at summer camp

as follows:

"father for this noonday meal , we would speak the praise we feel., Health and strength we have from thee. help us Lord to faithful be."

as a catholic "Lord" has a very specific meaning referring to Jesus

curious as to how other religions view the term "Lord"

do other religions use the term "Lord" ? what does it mean to them?

 

 

 

It depends on your particular Pack and CO.  The Pack and Troop I was a leader in (and sons were in from Tiger/Wolf to Eagle) was sponsored by my Parish, a Catholic Church. I see no problems with Catholic specific prayers or Christian specific prayers at Pack/Troop events.  That said, if other Troops/Packs were involved (camporee, etc.), a more vague non-Christian prayer should be used. 

[Terasec]

4 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

It depends on your particular Pack and CO.  The Pack and Troop I was a leader in (and sons were in from Tiger/Wolf to Eagle) was sponsored by my Parish, a Catholic Church. I see no problems with Catholic specific prayers or Christian specific prayers at Pack/Troop events.  That said, if other Troops/Packs were involved (camporee, etc.), a more vague non-Christian prayer should be used. 

our CO is a Lutheran church, our pack is not religious itself, and members religious beliefs vary, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Asian religions , and some I never heard of.

Grace prayer I use is taken from Council scout camp that is used at summer camp and posted in  council camps dining hall,

being council scout camp, its not specific to any 1 religious preference, but the use of the word Lord, has me curious as if its appropriate for all religions

for duty to God I generally give parents handouts and discuss talking to their children about their religious beliefs, in the hand outs I include  council camps grace prayers as an example, 

 

[ParkMan]

I always stuck to God.  I gathered it was the most transferrable between faiths.

A way I've also seen this done is to pick prayers from different faiths from time. It seems like a nice way to share some different things with the scouts.  You've just got to be careful to avoid @qwazse's "God Jesus" example.  Another variant here is to ask around you pack and see if there are people from different faiths and enlist their help with a prayer from time to time.

On the question of Lord.  I was reminded that Lord is used in the Philmont Grace.  That's about as close to a Scouting prayer as I think we get, so perhaps if they use it there it's pretty safe.

[Treflienne]

Years back, one of the graces that Girl Scouts used (back when they sang grace at camp) went

Neath these tall green trees we stand, asking blessings from thy hand.  Thanks we give to thee above, for thy gifts: health, strength, and love.

This made an attempt to neatly sidestep the issue of the proper name/title for God. But it did make the assumptions that  God could be addressed with the familiar "thee", that it was proper to ask blessings from God and to give thanks to God, and that God was the source of good gifts to people.

I went to a camp training once, led by a 70-year-old girl scout trainer, who rather defensively made the case that singing grace was still appropriate -- but it was clear that that was her personal addition to the training session, not sanctioned by the council sponsoring the training.    So I am quite curious about Boy Scout practises in this matter.

By the way,  in answer to the original poster's question,  I have heard protestant (baptist, nondenominational, independent bible) christians use the word Lord without a lot of specificity to mean either 1) God the Father or 2) God the Son or 3) God the Trinity.   I have not generally heard it use to refer specifically the third person of the Trinity.

[qwazse]

33 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

... Neath these tall green trees we stand, asking blessings from thy hand.  Thanks we give to thee above, for thy gifts: health, strength, and love. ...

@Treflienne that would be a very welcome grace at any BSA camp that I know of.

Well, assuming that you are indeed standing beneath tall, green trees.

[Treflienne]

6 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Well, assuming that you are indeed standing beneath tall, green trees.

They grow like weeds in my part of the country.   If you try looking at google maps satellite view for a less built up area, all you can see are the trees.

[qwazse]

3 hours ago, Terasec said:

... do other religions use the term "Lord" ? what does it mean to them? ...

I realized that I didn't answer your question in specific regarding folks from the Arab world. There are two words for Lord. They both imply master or all powerful, but differ in intimacy. One, famously recited in the Koran, "Lord of the Worlds." Another can also be translated as sire, or even landlord. That is more intimate, and more often used among Christians, specifically in reference to "my lord, Jesus". Now, a muslim may use the exact same words, but when he or she does, everyone knows they exclude the prophets (Jesus, included). And, thanks to modern media, everyone knows that those words from a Christian necessarily include Jesus.

Even though I failed to teach my kids Arabic, I have tried to teach them contextualization. That is, it's entirely possible that, with the same words, someone is thinking of something different than you. And, with different words, they might be thinking the same thing you are thinking. And in both cases they may be wishing the best for you. Our language is a glass house, let the light in and use the stones to frame a welcoming hearth.

[Treflienne]

6 minutes ago, qwazse said:

That is, it's entirely possible that, with the same words, someone is thinking of something different than you.

I have thought that this is how graces at scout camp (at least way back when girl scout camp sang grace) functioned.   While singing the rather generic words, the scouts could direct their prayer to God the best way they understood, and that understanding would be different for the different scouts.  In other words,  to sing a grace was to make a time and space for scouts to pray with their own meaning in their own minds.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Treflienne
typo

[Hawkwin]

17 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Even though I failed to teach my kids Arabic,

Ha! My daughter said to me last night, "Yalla yalla!" for the first time.

I can't get her to do much of anything I ask her to do but my little bit of slang Arabic apparently sticks with little effort. I guess it worked on my too as the only Arabic words I remember from my military days are Imshi, Yalla, Ma salama, and of course As-salamu alaykum and Wa-Alaikum-Salaam (though no one every seemed to say the "a" of alaykum or the Wa")

[scoutldr]

I think the Philmont Grace is appropriate for any occasion.