Camporee

[Sablanck]

Greetings,

I am on the planning committee for a Bi-district camporee for 2019. So with new all girl units a possibility what are the camping rules for that?  Specifically locations of units on the property?  I can not find anything in G2SS.  The property we use has one long gravel road that the units camp off of in long line.  So do the female units just be in that same line among the boy units?

[T2Eagle]

I don't know if there's any official guidance, but that is how co-ed Venture crews would be/are treated.

[malraux]

Same with what I’ve seen with Cub Scout packs. The only consideration might be if the male and female bathroom facilities are in different locations.

[ParkMan]

For now the official guidance is separate tents and separate bathroom facilities for boys & girls. 

You should also make sure that you're staffed in a way that two-deep adult leadership scenarios include one female leader over 21 - i.e., having two male adult camporee staff alone with a patrol of female scouts from a troop is something to avoid.

Beyond that, treat the troops with girls the same as troops with boys.  There's no requirements to place them in different, separated camp locations.  If you combine multiple troops together in a single site, you may want to consider placing the troops with girls together - but it's not required.

 

[Sablanck]

22 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

For now the official guidance is separate tents and separate bathroom facilities for boys & girls. 

You should also make sure that you're staffed in a way that two-deep adult leadership scenarios include one female leader over 21 - i.e., having two male adult camporee staff alone with a patrol of female scouts from a troop is something to avoid.

Beyond that, treat the troops with girls the same as troops with boys.  There's no requirements to place them in different, separated camp locations.  If you combine multiple troops together in a single site, you may want to consider placing the troops with girls together - but it's not required.

 

Fantastic thank you.

 

[Jameson76]

24 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

You should also make sure that you're staffed in a way that two-deep adult leadership scenarios include one female leader over 21 - i.e., having two male adult camporee staff alone with a patrol of female scouts from a troop is something to avoid.

So if you are a troop and you are manning a station or activity at a camporee and you only have male leaders, and a girl patrol saunters up to participate you are saying the troop should have a female leader at the station??

[Thunderbird]

I'm not seeing in the Scouting’s Barriers to Abuse : Adult Supervision rules that every station needs to have an adult female age 21+ present:

"Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision must always be provided."

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a

 

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

... You should also make sure that you're staffed in a way that two-deep adult leadership scenarios include one female leader over 21 - i.e., having two male adult camporee staff alone with a patrol of female scouts from a troop is something to avoid. ...

Although I think it's a really good idea, by way of training, to invite a newly female leader to join staff at every station, it's not essential for YPT. The activity is the camporee. If you have commissioners of both sexes making regular rounds, I think you will do a better job of fending off predators and false accusations than if you station your female adults (or males, if they happen to be the minority) in one place.

Edited December 5, 2018 by qwazse

[ParkMan]

53 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

So if you are a troop and you are manning a station or activity at a camporee and you only have male leaders, and a girl patrol saunters up to participate you are saying the troop should have a female leader at the station??

My read is that it would be a question of whether it's enclosed or not.  A station in plain view with others around you'd be fine.  An enclosed structure where two male adults are alone with female youth would be a potential concern.  That's my read on why we have the female over 21 rule in the first place.

I do not agree with this rule - but it's how I'd read it.  I'd be happy to be told I'm wrong.

[Jameson76]

6 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

My read is that it would be a question of whether it's enclosed or not.  A station in plain view with others around you'd be fine.  An enclosed structure where two male adults are alone with female youth would be a potential concern.  That's my read on why we have the female over 21 rule in the first place.

I do not agree with this rule - but it's how I'd read it.  I'd be happy to be told I'm wrong.

One more reason not to go to camporees.....

[Sablanck]

2 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

One more reason not to go to camporees.....

Ok so what is wrong with Camporees?  

[69RoadRunner]

5 minutes ago, Sablanck said:

Ok so what is wrong with Camporees?  

Being forced to camp cramped in with the other troops for one thing.  The troop next to us deciding to start breakfast at 4:45am (not sure, but I assume they were cooking a turkey).  The night before, the two troops who ignored lights out time.

Things like this seem to happen at every Camporee we've attended.  When surveyed, our scouts dislike Camporees.

The inevitable wood badger telling us all we're doing wrong doesn't help, either. I'm not condemning all wood badgers.

[Sablanck]

Just now, 69RoadRunner said:

Being forced to camp cramped in with the other troops for one thing.  The troop next to us deciding to start breakfast at 4:45am (not sure, but I assume they were cooking a turkey).  The night before, the two troops who ignored lights out time.

Things like this seem to happen at every Camporee we've attended.  When surveyed, our scouts dislike Camporees.

The inevitable wood badger telling us all we're doing wrong doesn't help, either. I'm not condemning all wood badgers.

Hmm

Unfortunately that is how ours is set up due to small camping property.  When I was in a larger council with bigger properties the units were spread out and didnt have view of each other.

Ahh the wooden toggle experts.  I dont trust them either and they bring out my unscoutlike demeanor. Many I have dealt with are not there to help just to point out flaws.  If you are not here to help you can pack up your tent and leave.  I dont need "experts"

[qwazse]

19 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

My read is that it would be a question of whether it's enclosed or not.  ...

I disagree with how you're reading into YPT. Requiring a male and female adult at all times for every enclosed space would mean that every Den Chief training and merit badge pow-wow would need a male and female registered adult in every classroom. That would spread resources so thin that it would set up a very predictable situation for a predator to take advantage of.

Again, several teams of commissioners, each made up of the opposite sex, roaming the halls and checking in on classrooms would do more to make sure our youth are safe.

I am really concerned about over-interpreting YPT because I have been in several situations with venturing where it was really important for the adult females to be on elsewhere in camp while a couple of us guys were advising the female youth in a training course. We could hold the fort for an hour or two between visits by the female adults. A couple of men at a camporee station (enclosed or not) visited by a patrol of girls for 15-20 minutes will be in compliance. We really want the commissioners to be on the alert for a single male or female adult giving undue attention to a patrol of youth between stations.

[MattR]

I'd say let them camp wherever they want. Don't try and solve problems that don't exist or try and follow rules that aren't clear. The best approach to solving all sorts of camporee problems is to make the camporee fun. Scouts will put up with all sorts of things if they're having fun.

Our next camporee's theme is Zombie Snowpocalypse. We will probably give extra points for anyone that can pronounce it, 10 times quickly, while eating a cracker, and maybe hanging upside down.