Juvenile Offenses and Ethics

[Thunderbird]

The Scoutmaster has the discretion to sign (or not sign) the Scout spirit requirement #2 or the Eagle Scout rank application.  Eagle requirement #2 is where the Scoutmaster has the most discretion.  The Scout can request a board of review under disputed circumstances.

"Its purpose [of the board of review] is to determine the quality of his experience and decide whether he has fulfilled the requirements for the rank. " (GTA section 8.0.0.1)

"Discussion of how he has lived the Scout Oath and Scout Law in his home, unit, school, and community should be included. We must remember, however, that though we have high expectations for our members, as for ourselves, we do not insist on perfection. A positive attitude is most important, and that a young man accepts Scouting’s ideals and sets and meets good standards in his life."  (GTA section 8.0.1.2)

Based on what Scoutmaster Teddy has shared, this particular Scout:

1) Was caught with an illegal substance in high school.
2) Was selling that illegal substance in high school.
3) Has been in legal trouble before.
4) Verbally abused an ASM in a profanity laced tirade.

Adding to @John-in-KC 's questions:  How does any of this behavior show that the Scout accepts Scouting's ideals and sets and meets good standards in his life?  Was he Courteous to that ASM?  Was he Obedient in following the law?  Was he Clean?  Was he Trustworthy?  What kind of example does his behavior set for other Scouts in the troop?  As Scouters, we aren't looking for perfection, but this isn't an isolated event, either.

[Eagledad]

57 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Experiencing repercussions is natural. 

How does one experience repercussions of behavior without accountability. 

 

57 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

We just don't need to pile on more.  The scout already has repercussions at school and home.  He will have probably some minor follow-on in the court system with a juvenile diversion program. 

You lost me, the community (National) reputation of the Boy Scout Eagle is leadership, character and integrity. The BSA program mission is developing moral and ethical character. And you believe that the reputation of behavior outside of Scouting activities should be off limits!

By the way, have you seen this? Its part of the Number 2 Eagle requirement: 

As a Life Scout, demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Tell how you have done your duty to God, how you have lived the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your everyday life, and how your understanding of the Scout Oath and Scout Law will guide your life in the future.

I guess this all comes down to personal opinion of how each of us rank the honor of Eagle against the dishonor of bad behavior. OK, I get that. But I don't feel you have much respect for those who have a different opinion.

My Eagle son is a high school teacher and has had several students arrested for various actions from drugs to attacks of other students on school property. I will ask his opinion of how their actions rank with the reputation of the Eagle. 

Barry

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Eagledad

[Eagledad]

21 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

Even for eagle requirements, there is subjectivity by the MB counselor for completing those requirements. When the scout is "tested" for the requirement regardless of whether a T-Fc rank, or for a mB, the subjectivity of whether it was completed to the signatories satisfaction is subjective. Of course some will have more agreement than others amongst scouters as far as what it looks like to satisfy the reqs, but my point stands that it is still subjective to a degree just as it is to show scout spirit. 

OK, you win the splitting hairs competition. But I believe my original point stands, living the oath and law is 99 percent more subjective than the rest of the requirements because it judges personal behavior. 

Barry

[fred8033]

I may have missed some posts from the original scoutmaster that may influence my view.  It's the challenge when the facts come out a bit at a time.

I am one who always wants to make the mistake in the scout's favor.  But, it is the scoutmasters discretion and there is a threshold where you do say no.  It's in the scoutmaster's discretion and boards will hold it up in those cases.  

I wish this scoutmaster the best.  

[DuctTape]

15 hours ago, Eagledad said:

OK, you win the splitting hairs competition. But I believe my original point stands, living the oath and law is 99 percent more subjective than the rest of the requirements because it judges personal behavior. 

Barry

I am sorry you felt I was splitting hairs. It wasn't my intention. 

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

On 12/7/2018 at 12:48 AM, fred8033 said:

I may have missed some posts from the original scoutmaster that may influence my view.  It's the challenge when the facts come out a bit at a time.

I am one who always wants to make the mistake in the scout's favor.  But, it is the scoutmasters discretion and there is a threshold where you do say no.  It's in the scoutmaster's discretion and boards will hold it up in those cases.  

I wish this scoutmaster the best.  

I am the original Scoutmaster. Thank you for the comments. It's a tough row to hoe for sure. 

 

Scoutmaster Teddy