How to deal with a difficult leader?

[MattR]

3 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

The only reason I am not the official Scoutmaster is because I am only 19.  

That changes my understanding. First of all, a big round of applause for taking this on. Second, getting Grandpaw to help with this guy is a good idea. And any other adults. Third, officially you're an adult but the scouts are going to see you as one of them. That's a big plus. Use this to your advantage. You love backpacking and these scouts are looking up to you. So go backpacking. It doesn't all have to be long hikes. And some campouts that require all food to be cooked in dutch ovens will make for a fun break. As long as you look out for them and throw some fun things in the mix go ahead and challenge them.

Something else you might not realize but now is a really important time to start looking for webelos bridging over. If you could get 4 more scouts in February that would be awesome. I have no idea what's going on with the pack that was at your chartering organization. Anyway, it would be great to develop a relationship with a pack or two. Talk to your scouts about how important this is and see if you can get them to help with some dens. Be Den Chiefs. Invite them camping with you. Den leaders are burned out by now so reaching out to them will be greatly appreciated.

One thing about being the SM is having a vision of what the troop is about. Sharing that with everyone helps keep everyone on the same page and also is a great way to sell your troop to packs. Ask Grandpaw to help with this. We can also help.

[CodyMiller351]

2 minutes ago, MattR said:

That changes my understanding. First of all, a big round of applause for taking this on. Second, getting Grandpaw to help with this guy is a good idea. And any other adults. Third, officially you're an adult but the scouts are going to see you as one of them. That's a big plus. Use this to your advantage. You love backpacking and these scouts are looking up to you. So go backpacking. It doesn't all have to be long hikes. And some campouts that require all food to be cooked in dutch ovens will make for a fun break. As long as you look out for them and throw some fun things in the mix go ahead and challenge them.

Something else you might not realize but now is a really important time to start looking for webelos bridging over. If you could get 4 more scouts in February that would be awesome. I have no idea what's going on with the pack that was at your chartering organization. Anyway, it would be great to develop a relationship with a pack or two. Talk to your scouts about how important this is and see if you can get them to help with some dens. Be Den Chiefs. Invite them camping with you. Den leaders are burned out by now so reaching out to them will be greatly appreciated.

One thing about being the SM is having a vision of what the troop is about. Sharing that with everyone helps keep everyone on the same page and also is a great way to sell your troop to packs. Ask Grandpaw to help with this. We can also help.

Thanks man, appreciate the responses!  

[DuctTape]

2 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

Yes, I have the support of the other leaders (probably 3 in total that show up regularly).  

This is key. Before you talk to the "problem guy", talk to these folks and be sure you are on the same page about your vision, and expectations.  If possible, garner their help with dealing with "the problem". 

[CodyMiller351]

1 minute ago, DuctTape said:

This is key. Before you talk to the "problem guy", talk to these folks and be sure you are on the same page about your vision, and expectations.  If possible, garner their help with dealing with "the problem". 

Yea that what I'll probably end up doing.  There were two other leaders on this trip who witnessed his problems, so I'll probably discuss it with them and see if they feel the same way I do.

[Oldscout448]

19, eh?  Props and a Scout salute to you! I was once an ASM for a brand new troop at that age. SM was a good guy but knew nothing about scouting. So I pretty much ran the whole show while he did the paperwork. 

As others have pointed out, being young gives you a closer bond with the scouts than is possible with us old folks. They will look up to you and copy you.  ( scared yet?)  The down side is that some of the older adults have a hard time seeing you as an adult.  I said things as a 20 year old to some 40 year old parents and was completely blown off. I say the exact same thing now and they say " Yes sir". Grey hair does have some advantages after all. Shouldn't be that way but it is.

So talk to the other leaders, explain to them your vision of what the troop should be, and how it's going to get there. Get them on your, that is to say scoutings, side. If all of them politely  tell the difficult parent "That's not how we roll here" it's probably going to be easier for him to accept than just coming from you. 

[Eagledad]

Vision at your age might sound trivial, but we humans find noble idealism hard to argue against. Adults on one hand want the fun of scouting, and on the other hand they like purpose with their fun. Even the best scoutmasters has to learn how to justify the fun for the noble cause.

Barry

[Eagle94-A1]

If my comments seem ageist, please bear with me as that is not the intent. In fact I was in similar shoes once long ago.

Your age is both a curse and a blessing. A curse in that you will encounter adults who will ignore you, be condescending to you, and outright rude to you all because of your age. But it is also a blessing you close enough to the Scouts' ages that you can relate to them, be a confidant  and mentor them You probably have more influence over the Scouts than the other adults do, and more than you even realize. While you cannot change the adults, use that influence over the Scouts to create a program the Scouts wants.

As for your relationship with the official SM/.grandfather, he may be grumpy , but if he has dealt with these problems in the past, you can probably understand why.  It is not a fun situation. You may want to take him to a "neutral" place like a coffee shop, restaurant, etc and have a chat with him about everything going on, make sure he knows what is going on. You need to get him aboard with what your vision is since you are the defacto SM. 

You are also going to need allies in the other adults who agree with you. Once you get granddad behind you, you need to meet with the other adults who agree with you and get a unified statement. Get your COR behind it too. 

Then confront the adult causing problems.

 

Good luck

 

[David CO]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:03 AM, CodyMiller351 said:

Another one of our leaders (also my Grandpaw) accepted the official title as Scoutmaster once we lost ours a couple months ago.  I said I am unofficially the Scoutmaster because he put all of the responsibilities on me and I accepted.  The only reason I am not the official Scoutmaster is because I am only 19.  

I see the problem. You have parents in your unit who don't accept you as the Scoutmaster, official or otherwise. I can't entirely blame them. You are not a Scoutmaster.

Your Chartered Organization should be concerned. 

[Oldscout448]

"The  work is done by them as shows up to do it."   

If CodyMiller is doing the job of  SM, then he deserves all the respect due that office.   

 

[CodyMiller351]

8 hours ago, David CO said:

I see the problem. You have parents in your unit who don't accept you as the Scoutmaster, official or otherwise. I can't entirely blame them. You are not a Scoutmaster.

Your Chartered Organization should be concerned. 

I respect your input but I’m going to have to disagree. I took on this role when no one else would. I put in as much time and effort as any Scoutmaster (the size of my troop). I learned from multiple Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmaster over my time in Scouts. My Chartered Organization has no reason to worry considering I’ve done nothing but help get my Troop back on track.  The parents can accept me or not, I still have a job to do and I’m going to do it to the best of my ability. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t say I’m not a Scoutmaster considering you have no idea of situation or the position I’m in. Thanks. 

[DuctTape]

1 hour ago, CodyMiller351 said:

I respect your input but I’m going to have to disagree. I took on this role when no one else would. I put in as much time and effort as any Scoutmaster (the size of my troop). I learned from multiple Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmaster over my time in Scouts. My Chartered Organization has no reason to worry considering I’ve done nothing but help get my Troop back on track.  The parents can accept me or not, I still have a job to do and I’m going to do it to the best of my ability. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t say I’m not a Scoutmaster considering you have no idea of situation or the position I’m in. Thanks. 

We often write about the work vs the patch. You are doing the work. Keep it up young fella.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, CodyMiller351 said:

My Chartered Organization has no reason to worry considering I’ve done nothing but help get my Troop back on track.

I am thinking of the liability issues. Yes, your Chartered Organization should be concerned. 

 

 

[David CO]

2 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

The parents can accept me or not, I still have a job to do and I’m going to do it to the best of my ability.

 It's not your job. 

[Ranman328]

@CodyMiller351, I am going to have to agree with @David CO.  According to BSA regulations you must be 21 years of age to be the Scoutmaster.  With the new YPT2 rules, you wouldn't even count toward the two deep leadership yet as the rules state "two 21 year old registered" adults.  I understand you are doing the job but there is a risk involved.  Trust me when I say this, if something happens and there are only two of you, BSA will not cover or protect you.  I know this by personally watching it happen to an Assistant Scoutmaster with over 40 years of experience in BSA.  You can get a lot of advice here on this forum but I would encourage you to read up of the rules and regulations of BSA before going out.  I only have 15 years of Scouting Experience and I am learning something new all the time.  Good Luck.

[qwazse]

@David CO and @Ranman328, the letter of the G2SS is not being violated. GrandPaw is the SM with three ASMs, of which @CodyMiller351 is the natural leader by delegation, recognition, and talent. They have enough 21-plus around that they need the "big tent" to keep them all under canvas. The YPT boxes are checked.

Better yet, it seems GrandPaw and the other ASMs regard function over form along the lines that @Oldscout448 and @DuctTape are inclined  to recognize.

I don't know about you all, but when the SM tells me to do something along the lines of "run the troop in my absence", my job is scoutmaster. I get whatever credit or blame comes my way, and it doesn't get passed anywhere else. Same goes for my other ASMs. So, the title is "assistant" but the job is "scoutmaster."

So what's needed here? Ways to help this assistant to become a better scoutmaster. Pretending that molehills are mountains ain't it.