How to deal with a difficult leader?

[CodyMiller351]

25 minutes ago, wdfa89 said:

alrighty then.  my apologies.  I must have read your post wrong or more into it than was there. 

It’s all good man.  Didn’t give all the information cause I felt like I was writing a book. Haha.  Appreciate the response. 

[TMSM]

1 hour ago, perdidochas said:

Well, depends on the campsite.  In my troop, the parents were allowed to use whatever they wanted to use for tents.  The regular camping parents/leaders tended towards minimalism--backpacking tents, in my case, a hammock, or we had some under the open sky ground sleepers (in appropriate weather).  

Sure it depends on the site size and available sites, we camp so the scouts can camp and do what scouts do. I expect adults in my troop to be flexible with tent size and be available to suppport what the scouts want to do. 

With only 3 scouts it sounds like a new troop trying to form so best to start off by creating a scout led troop. Good luck!

[MikeS72]

6 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

we are sitting around the fire at night and this leader begins playing videos on his phone.  Now I didn't have a problem with this (but I did want some peace and quite to enjoy nature) until the videos got inappropriate.  There was a good amount of bad language in some of these videos, which doesn't bother me, but it bothered one of our other leaders.

This is the part of the problem that I would address first, as playing inappropriate media while with Scouts shows a serious lack of judgement on his part.  Also, it only takes one Scout to go home and talk about what he may have seen or heard on this leader's phone to cause parents to pull their Scouts, or for someone to file a YPT complaint against the troop leadership.

[David CO]

6 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

Unofficially, I am the Scoutmaster. 

OK. Who is officially the Scoutmaster?

[qwazse]

7 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

I honestly hope so but we just don’t have the boys for it right now. I love backpacking but the best place we’ve gone so far is Grayson Highlands. I really want to do more back-country/high adventure stuff but we only have 3 guys (including myself) who would be able to. 

Simple plan (one you can explain to the boys): choose each campsite twice as far from the cars as was chosen on the previous campout. By the end of spring, you'll be hiking in a quarter mile; summer, a mile or two; late fall, four to six miles. Boys grow fast! Call the rangers at most camps, they will be more than happy to set this up for you. Many have special sites set aside for folks to hike into. Others have trails or canoe treks between a sister camp.

Three adults + three scouts. That, some rope, and some tarps ... and you're good to go. 

Give your adults full warning that they are to get in shape or find someone trustworthy who is. The "big tent" is to be the exception, not the rule.

Don't worry, there'll still be plenty of opportunities for close quarters: camporees, webelos weekends, etc ... but your scouts will get the idea and maybe share it with a buddy or two, and hopefully by the end of the year they'll be a tight knit patrol and your difficult leader will worship the ground you walk on.

[Eagle94-A1]

As someone who has dealt with this type of adult i can tell you this : IF YOU DO NOT NIP IT IN THE BUD NOW, IT WILL GET WORSE! (caps, bold, and underline for MAJOR emphasis, not shouting).  My sons and I just left a troops with adults like this. Unfortunately I was not the SM and was unable to nip it in the bud. Problem grew and grew until SM and others were fed up with the adults acting like you mentioned.

[CodyMiller351]

17 hours ago, TMSM said:

Sure it depends on the site size and available sites, we camp so the scouts can camp and do what scouts do. I expect adults in my troop to be flexible with tent size and be available to suppport what the scouts want to do. 

With only 3 scouts it sounds like a new troop trying to form so best to start off by creating a scout led troop. Good luck!

Actually we are a 50 year old troop.  We have had a rough past 2 years, with our charter organization dropping us cause of problems with the cub pack, losing more than half our troop due to parent problems, and trying to renovate our scout hut.  I'm am trying to rebuild and get us back to a decent troop but I have very little support.  

[CodyMiller351]

13 hours ago, David CO said:

OK. Who is officially the Scoutmaster?

Another one of our leaders (also my Grandpaw) accepted the official title as Scoutmaster once we lost ours a couple months ago.  I said I am unofficially the Scoutmaster because he put all of the responsibilities on me and I accepted.  The only reason I am not the official Scoutmaster is because I am only 19.  

[CodyMiller351]

13 hours ago, qwazse said:

Simple plan (one you can explain to the boys): choose each campsite twice as far from the cars as was chosen on the previous campout. By the end of spring, you'll be hiking in a quarter mile; summer, a mile or two; late fall, four to six miles. Boys grow fast! Call the rangers at most camps, they will be more than happy to set this up for you. Many have special sites set aside for folks to hike into. Others have trails or canoe treks between a sister camp.

Three adults + three scouts. That, some rope, and some tarps ... and you're good to go. 

Give your adults full warning that they are to get in shape or find someone trustworthy who is. The "big tent" is to be the exception, not the rule.

Don't worry, there'll still be plenty of opportunities for close quarters: camporees, webelos weekends, etc ... but your scouts will get the idea and maybe share it with a buddy or two, and hopefully by the end of the year they'll be a tight knit patrol and your difficult leader will worship the ground you walk on.

We have done a good number of 10 miles hikes and backpacking trips.  The past couple years we have been doing 2-3 backing trips a year.  Grayson Highlands is our favorite spot so far but we just don't get to spend enough time there during one weekend.  

[qwazse]

42 minutes ago, CodyMiller351 said:

We have done a good number of 10 miles hikes and backpacking trips.  The past couple years we have been doing 2-3 backing trips a year.  Grayson Highlands is our favorite spot so far but we just don't get to spend enough time there during one weekend.  

So, how far from your vehicles were you when you difficult leader started blowing smoke about the big tent?

Honestly, growing up, our SM never parked the car within eyesight of the camp. Note: I said "car" -- singular because the other drivers dropped us off and picked us up at the end of the weekend.

I think you need to bounce this off of Grandpaw, and have him tell it like it is to these adults. The result might not always go your way. But, if he lays out a standard of conduct, your odds of this errant adult falling in line are a little better.

[CodyMiller351]

2 minutes ago, qwazse said:

So, how far from your vehicles were you when you difficult leader started blowing smoke about the big tent?

Honestly, growing up, our SM never parked the car within eyesight of the camp. Note: I said "car" -- singular because the other drivers dropped us off and picked us up at the end of the weekend.

I think you need to bounce this off of Grandpaw, and have him tell it like it is to these adults. The result might not always go your way. But, if he lays out a standard of conduct, your odds of this errant adult falling in line are a little better.

For this past trip (where we had problems with the leader) our cars were parked right at the campsite.  This wasn't a backpacking trip and we were staying in a state park campground.  For our backpacking trips, we aren't near the vehicles at all.  The problem with Grandpaw is he doesn't go on any of the trips so he doesn't see the problems.  He also isn't the easiest person to deal with himself.  

[DuctTape]

This may not work for you, but even at a State campground, there is often a main parking lot. Use that and then hike into the campground area. This will also free up space in the site to use. 

Do you have the support of any other adult leaders (besides grandpaw?)

[qwazse]

Just now, CodyMiller351 said:

For this past trip (where we had problems with the leader) our cars were parked right at the campsite.  This wasn't a backpacking trip and we were staying in a state park campground.  For our backpacking trips, we aren't near the vehicles at all.  The problem with Grandpaw is he doesn't go on any of the trips so he doesn't see the problems.  He also isn't the easiest person to deal with himself.  

BTW: ours was not a backpacking troop, and water purification was foreign to us. I remember nighttime insertions where we would go back those hundreds of yards to shuttle the 20 gal army surplus water bottle!

Next time, talk to the state park ranger about a primitive site removed from the cars.

Grandpaw's still "wearing the patch." So, commit to sitting down with him to review each weekend you all go on. Just give him the good, the bad, and the ugly as you saw it. Most of SM's and Advisor's get a reputation for not being the easiest people to deal with. The more adults you deal with the more you'll understand why. It might seem like a nuisance, but in the long run all that talk might make you a team.

[CodyMiller351]

9 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

This may not work for you, but even at a State campground, there is often a main parking lot. Use that and then hike into the campground area. This will also free up space in the site to use. 

Do you have the support of any other adult leaders (besides grandpaw?)

Yes, I have the support of the other leaders (probably 3 in total that show up regularly).  

[CodyMiller351]

1 minute ago, qwazse said:

BTW: ours was not a backpacking troop, and water purification was foreign to us. I remember nighttime insertions where we would go back those hundreds of yards to shuttle the 20 gal army surplus water bottle!

Next time, talk to the state park ranger about a primitive site removed from the cars.

Grandpaw's still "wearing the patch." So, commit to sitting down with him to review each weekend you all go on. Just give him the good, the bad, and the ugly as you saw it. Most of SM's and Advisor's get a reputation for not being the easiest people to deal with. The more adults you deal with the more you'll understand why. It might seem like a nuisance, but in the long run all that talk might make you a team.

I remember our first time trying to get purified water on a backpacking trip.  Our first experience was also late at night and it took forever to find the spring.