Unofficial Seabadge "Knots"

[SCCMatthew]

Hello all,

I can't seem to find the answer to this anywhere so this may be more of an opinion based question. 

As far as I know prior to the official Seabadge "knot", many unofficial ones were created. Some Scouter's continue to wear the unofficial ones produced by Scouters such as Craig Murray that look a lot cleaner and more consistent. My question is, would it be considered "stolen valor" to wear an unofficial Seabadge "knot" if you take the program after the official ones were discontinued? I don't see it looked down upon for Scouters to wear them from prior to when an official "knot" was made, but what about after the official "knot" was discontinued? 

As I said, since we're dealing with unofficial insignia this is a very opinion and taste based question, but I'm wondering what your opinions are.

YiS

Edited November 25, 2018 by SCCMatthew

[Eagle94-A1]

1) Did you earn it? Yes, then got for it. No, then stop right there.

2) Are you getting it in khaki, white or navy? Ship's Stores is a great source and supports the Sea Scout community in CA. Here is a link to their knots. https://www.ships-store.com/patches.php  I do not see khaki.

3) I have "reproduction" white and navy knots for my Sea Scout uniforms, and do not have any qualms about wearing them.

4) sadly the current China made insignia of today does not match the Made in the USA insignia of yesteryear.

 

[ParkMan]

16 hours ago, SCCMatthew said:

Hello all,

I can't seem to find the answer to this anywhere so this may be more of an opinion based question. 

As far as I know prior to the official Seabadge "knot", many unofficial ones were created. Some Scouter's continue to wear the unofficial ones produced by Scouters such as Craig Murray that look a lot cleaner and more consistent. My question is, would it be considered "stolen valor" to wear an unofficial Seabadge "knot" if you take the program after the official ones were discontinued? I don't see it looked down upon for Scouters to wear them from prior to when an official "knot" was made, but what about after the official "knot" was discontinued? 

As I said, since we're dealing with unofficial insignia this is a very opinion and taste based question, but I'm wondering what your opinions are.

YiS

It's been so long since the official knot was discontinued that I think it's the effectively like back in the old days.

[Jahaza]

On a related question... 

The Seabadge is won over the right pocket, even, as I understand it, on the khaki Boy Scout uniform. So if you wear a jamboree patch is it either/or, or can you move the Jamboree patch up (as you would if you wear the optional name plate and/or interpreter strip)?

[qwazse]

25 minutes ago, Jahaza said:

On a related question... 

The Seabadge is won over the right pocket, even, as I understand it, on the khaki Boy Scout uniform. So if you wear a jamboree patch is it either/or, or can you move the Jamboree patch up (as you would if you wear the optional name plate and/or interpreter strip)? 

From http://www.scoutinsignia.com/seabadge.htm

Quote

How worn: If worn on the field Boy Scout or Venturing uniforms; or on the blue or white Sea Scout uniform, the metallic Sea Badge is worn centered immediately above the "Boy Scouts of America" or "Sea Scouts - BSA" strip (and any interpreter strips) on the RIGHT side of the uniform shirt.

No specifics about the Jambo patch, but logic would dictate that it should be centered above the Seabadge, which is above any interpreter strips, which are above the organization name.

[Laxplr21]

I personally love the knots over the left pocket.  I use them as conversation starters.  There is an app out there that explains what they are and for what, both active and retired.  I chose to wear the knot, including the "unofficial" wood badge bead knot, because of a safety issue.  It is flat against the uniform and out of the way.  With the sea badge pin, it could get dislodge and then you have something poking you.  For the wood badge beads around your neck, can you see where I'm going here?  If I'm in some high adventure activity, think the ropes in the trees as an example, I don't want to have to worry about something around my neck.  I'm not alone in thinking this and know others that would rather wear a patch knot.  One even argued against the Scout Executive of the council.  If you want to wear the old "retired" knot, go right ahead.  Who is gonna ticket you, the uniform police?  It's just something that is getting way to much attention when focus should be on the kids and making sure they have a great program.  Why waste your time and energy to something that is not enforceable.

[The Latin Scot]

I notice that whenever somebody wants to wear an item that is disallowed by the most current Guide to Awards and Insignia, they bring up something along the lines of "Well, it's such a little thing that nobody should make a big deal out of it, and after all, isn't this about KIDS, and not about worrying about such a little thing?!"

The problem with this approach is that it is ultimately a distraction from the real issue - adults who want to get away with improper uniforming, and throwing up the smokescreen of 'concern for the program' when actually they just don't want people to bother them about an error they are willfully perpetuating. When we say "lets focus on kids" and not "waste your time and energy on something that is not enforceable," we are very much saying "I want to ignore the idea of uniforms, and if you don't like it, then you are ignoring the CHILDREN - how could you?!" This, of course, is unfair and illogical. Pointing out errors in an attempt to preserve the power of the uniform, especially when done tactfully, respectfully, and kindly, does not in any way distract from the program. In fact, it is a move towards strengthening it. We are a uniformed body. When we try to make ourselves exceptions simply because we want things to be our way, or to highlight our own accomplishments and not those of the youth, we have lost our way. 

We don't need uniform police, because every responsible adult should be policing himself - not against petty rules, but against setting an example of defiance and exception rather than obedience and unity. Be mindful of which you are putting before the youth you teach.

Edited December 6, 2018 by The Latin Scot

[jr56]

Excellent point.