Is this a Scout campout?

[Chippewa29]

Next weekend, my troop is going white water rafting for the second time. We had a great time last year and I'm looking forward to going again this year. However, I have a few reservations.

1. We have only 9 out of 22 Scouts in the troop going. Also, there are no Scouts going unless their parents are going. It seems to me that if you have less than 50% of the eligible Scouts going on an outing, then the troop needs to re-evaluate that activity (we picked the date back in January and everyone was aware).

2. The dad coordinating the event decided that instead of cooking in camp, everyone was on their own for food (there are restaurants nearby). He and a few other adults (I wasn't involved in the discussion) felt it was more convenient to not have to cook or coordinate any of the meals.

3. One of the families invited some friends of theirs (non-Scouters) to come with us for the second year in a row. These people are very nice and didn't cause any problems last year. My concern is that if other people in the troop do the same thing, then we'll have a bunch of non-troop members coming to a "troop function" and they may not all be that well-behaved.

4. After the rafting last year, the tour company took everyone back to camp and gave everyone tickets for two free drinks while we waited for the pictures and video to be developed (it took about 45 minutes). Beer was an option for the drinks. While no one got out of hand at all, I really questioned the appropriateness of having beer consumed during a "Scout" campout (even if we didn't bring it). I believe there is a similar deal for this year.

 

What have other troops faced while on their white water or other types of trips? I don't want to make big waves if I don't need to, but I also can see this as being a bad precedent for other trips.

[John-in-KC]

Only one question:

 

HOW IN THE WORLD IS YOUR COUNCIL SERVICE CENTER ISSUING A TOUR PERMIT???

 

1) Has the unit done what is needed in G2SS for a whitewater trip?

2) The families going along concerns me.

 

John

 

 

[ScouterPaul]

Wow!!

Who is in charge? The Dads or the PLC? Sounds more like a family outing than a troop outing.

 

Less than 50% attendance - unfortunately it happens. How much does the outing cost? Summer vacation?

 

Our Troop allows guests on our outings - so far they have only been families of boys interested in becoming a scout.

 

I like my beer, however, never on a scout outing. I can wait until I get home.

 

Sounds like you or someone needs to curtail this outing before it gets out of hand.

 

[boleta]

We had a similar thing happen in Feb. with a ski trip. We needed 40 to rent the bus. With only 9 scouts and their family members, we changed it to a "family ski trip" instead of a troop event. Similar things happened on our event but it was each families' responsibility. With the white water scouting event described above, no alocohol!

[scoutldr]

Analogous to laser-tag, this event does not follow the Guide to Safe Scouting and does not qualify as a Scouting or Troop event, if it is run as you described. However, if a group of nine (or more) families decide to get together and do this, it's still a free country. I would require the following:

 

- Planning of the event may NOT be done by the PLC or discussed during a Troop meeting

- It should not appear on the troop calendar

- A council tour permit will NOT be requested

- All parents will be notified that this is NOT a Troop function

- The troop will not handle any money or forms

- Troop equipment will not be used

 

In other words, you can SAY it's not a troop event, but then you have to make sure that it's not even perceived as a troop event. What you do means more than what you say.

[nldscout]

First its tooooo late to not call it a troop trip. But saying that, whats wrong with the way it is run, except for the beer. We also do a White Water weekend in August like this and bring family memebers and allow guest under certain rules. Why not? Why shouldn't you be up front with council and file a tour permit? Better to cover your bases than to be hanging out there if something happens.

 

As to Guest, you can fix this by having a written policy for all

[Eamonn]

I have been known in my time to have the odd Adult beverage. However doing so at any uniformed Scout function,on Scout owned property or in the presence of youth members can not and should not ever be allowed or permitted. You need to make this very clear to all those that are going with you.

I would have to take a long hard look at what insurance would be in place for these non Scouting participants and pass this information on too them. Not only to cover your tail but also to allow them to make sure that they are covered.

How the event came into being does concern me. I keep hearing a little bird telling me that if it's not for the Boys, it's for the birds??

Taking a long hard look at the G2SS never does any harm and following what it has to say is a must.

I don't have any problem as to how the Lads get fed. If the goal of the event is to do something and taking time out to cook would get in the way of the goal - Why do it?

I could never see Eamonn the Scoutmaster allowing this event. Parent and son events are fine so long as the focus is on the Scouts, from what you have posted this does not seem to be the case.

Eamonn.

 

[Mike F]

There is definitely a problem with the non-Scout family - according to GTSS (http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss03.html), on a Scout Family Camping activity, at least one member of each family must be a registered BSA member.

 

All scouting GTSS and YP rules apply. The beer is out. Read the Safety Afloat section carefully - for example, everybody including adult guests needs to take the BSA "Swimmer" test. There are very explicit requirements for how to handle anyone who doesn't pass the test. Your tour company may be able to provide all the required certified lifeguards, but it's your responsibility to make sure you're covered per BSA standards - you can't delegate this to the company.

 

At this point, I'd probably make a public declaration that this was NOT a Troop or Scout event. Admit you started it with that intent, but have decided it's not a scout function. Have all families participating sign something that says they understand it's not a troop or BSA activity of any kind and is not sponsored or endorsed by BSA, local council, your troop, or your charter org. I'd still work hard to keep the alcohol out of the picture - there are just too many leaders and scouts on the trip. The lawyers might eventually concede it wasn't a BSA activity, but those impressionable guys will still see they're leaders in the outdoors knocking a few back. Other than that, I'd go have a great time. In fact, I wish my family was coming with you - sounds great!

 

BTW - I've been told we're not allowed to bring prospective scouts on campouts until they are registered. I didn't research this one myself, but our CC did and came back with a no. From the reading referenced above, it sounds like we may be able to if someone in their family is already registered and the prospective scout is of eligible age.

[EagleInKY]

MikeF - The insurance policy covers prospective scouts of the appropriate age. So, I'm not sure who told your CC what, but that doesn't sound correct. It would be true that they all need to pass the swimmers test, so it's possible that would be a problem on a rafting trip.

 

Our troop sets clear expectations and defines which trips are open to family and guests. When we do, here are the rules:

- Non-family members (guests) must be of scouting age and are being recruited to join.

- Siblings may attend, but a parent must attend and take responsibility for them.

 

 

I agree with the other posters, this trip has gotten out of hand. It needs to be dealt with immediately.

[JimmyD]

No beer at all. Our leaders drink but they never do it at scout functions.