COPE/Climbing ?

[hops_scout]

I dint know where to put this one, but this works I guess.

 

At camp last week, I enrolled in the COPE class. Lots of fun...anyway, on one day, our instructor told us that he had a free climb such and such time, etc. Good deal, I like to climb. He said I could use my helmet which is almost brand new.

 

On Thursday, turns out that he was wrong in that we were only allowed to use council gear and the only personal gear that could be used were gloves.

 

What do you think about that? I'm going to go look up and see what the National climbing guidelines say b/c this made me a little bit mad.

 

In my opinion, anybody should be able to use their own stuff as long as it is useable. My helmet is BRAND NEW, it has seen one climb and one rappel TOTAL! Their helmets are 6-8 years old!

 

I believe the Program director (one who corrected the instructor) said it was a COPE committee policy. Do many councils have that kind of rule?

[Eagle Foot]

I believe the reason is because of the liability is on the camp if a failure in equipment happens. It's not that your equipment is bad, they (the camp)needs to have total responsibility when it comes to activities that involve life or death such as climbing and repeling. They are the ones held accountable and not you and your equipment. Talk to your cope insturctor they should know.

 

Eagle Foot

[Be_Prepared]

The 2004 BSA Climbing/Rappelling National Standards are very clear and very detailed in this area, and cover a tremendous amount of material. Absolutely no personal gear at all. Equipment logs on rope, helmets, webbing, carabiners, etc must be maintained in regards to use, weather conditions, other environmental factors, date of manufacture, etc - and kept for 15 years.

 

All equipment, even if not used at all (and still in the box), must be destroyed based on manufactures' recommendation. For example - helments are destroyed on manf. recommendation or 7 years, whichever comes first. Ropes are destroyed after 4 years, regardless of use by cutting into 10 foot sections.

 

The reasons are twofold: safety and liability.

[hops_scout]

Be Prepared,

I wasnt aware of the new rules saying that. I dont remember which ones I have; I'll have to look.

[mk9750]

Yeah Hops, you were told about the same as I've heard.

 

It's our SM who is the Climbing instructor (as a matter of fact, he is the Coucil Climbing Chair). He says that all safety equipment and rope must remain in the control of a certified instructor, who, as Be Prepared says, must log purchase date, usage, conditions, etc.

 

Our Troop works within these rules by having each person who wants personal gear to place one order through the SM, who maintains control of the gear while not in use. If a Scout were to leave the Troop, he would be permitted to take his gear with him after signing a note acknowledging that the Instructor no longer has responsiblity., or he may sell it back to the Troop at a pro rated amount.

 

For the record, the SM, as well as the other 4 certified instructors our Troop has, feel the rule is rediculous. But it is the rule, and they follow it religiously.

 

Hope you had a good time anyway!

 

Mark

[hops_scout]

I've got another question which relates to this...

 

Caving-- is there any rules about helmets for this event too other than that it must be certified or whatever IE- held onto by an instructor, etc to keep track of it?? It should since it falls into a similar category though I hope it doesnt b/c that would make my helmet completely wasted.

 

 

[acco40]

Similar complaints exist from individuals who want to bring in their own bows, guns and rifles into camp for shooting sports. Enough idiots exist out there that all outside "equipment" that directly effects health and safety are not allowed into the camp.

[OXCOPS]

This rule also takes the liability off the instructor. As my Council's COPE Coordinator and a certified COPE Director, I deal with this question a good bit. IIRC, the COPE standards allow for some personal equipment to be used only if the COPE Director on the course inspects it and deems it suitable.

 

Now, should the Director allow a piece of gear and it fails, the blame falls right on his shoulders. It is a risky postion for a Director to be in since he/she does not know the history of the gear (falls, impacts, chemical contamination, etc.).

 

So, as a general rule, most COPE programs will not allow any personal gear. In our program, COPE staff can use their own harnesses, provided that they are only used on COPE events and a log is kept to record amount of use. If you want to use a personal harness for weekend climbing out in the desert on your own, you get another harness and do not use your COPE harness.