Girl Scouts Suing the Boy Scouts

[RememberSchiff]

1 minute ago, TuckahoeJoe said:

I don't know if the link is helpful as the category is Rover Scouts which may mean Venturing and Sea Scouting in the USA.

https://www.scout.org/sites/default/files/library_files/Grand Total Membership with Genders at 31 Dec 2016_0.pdf

The breakout is 105K boys and 32K girls as of YE 2016.

Thanks...now to find my glasses. 

[69RoadRunner]

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

I'm not sure I agree with that but we'll see how boys respond after their first co-ed summer camp experience.  I've said before and I'll repeat here, whatever we're calling boy scouts in 2020 will be moved to the gender segregated patrols model at the NAM in May of 2020.  We'll be told demand from the field, and parents, and that field experience shows the current girl troop model isn't working, and that it makes sense to parallel the Cub structure for continuity.

Girls from Venturing crews have been counselors at every summer camp we've attended since I joined.  That hasn't been an issue.

The Cub Scout model is terrible now. Cub Scouts was one of the few non-sports activities for just boys.  There are many more for girls.  Now that's gone.

[walk in the woods]

2 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Girls from Venturing crews have been counselors at every summer camp we've attended since I joined.  That hasn't been an issue.

Again, I say maybe.  Girls from Crews as camp staff is different that girls from Troops as participants.

[Hawkwin]

2 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

The Cub Scout model is terrible now. Cub Scouts was one of the few non-sports activities for just boys.  There are many more for girls.  Now that's gone.

The pack sees my den of girls about once a month for 90 minutes or less. Hardly a terrible experience.

 

[69RoadRunner]

16 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

The pack sees my den of girls about once a month for 90 minutes or less. Hardly a terrible experience.

 

I'm not saying it's a terrible experience. Kids are in great co-ed activities all the time.

I think there's benefit to having some single-sex activities.  Making Cub Scouts co-ed takes one away.

[walk in the woods]

5 hours ago, TuckahoeJoe said:

I don't know if the link is helpful as the category is Rover Scouts which may mean Venturing and Sea Scouting in the USA.

https://www.scout.org/sites/default/files/library_files/Grand Total Membership with Genders at 31 Dec 2016_0.pdf

The breakout is 105K boys and 32K girls as of YE 2016.

The 136k number was before the LDS departure from Venturing and likely also includes Exploring. 

The 2015 Annual report had Venturing/Sea Scouts at 142892,

2016 Report at 119626, 

the 2017 Report (post-LDS departure) at 87827 (https://scoutingwire.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2017-Annual-Report-Combined-FINAL-App-Version.pdf).  .  

[SSScout]

Twenty three pages of angst.   What does that say about the topic and the commentators? 

[ParkMan]

4 hours ago, SSScout said:

Twenty three pages of angst.   What does that say about the topic and the commentators? 

I think it's an important, controversial topic affecting an organization that is beloved by people here.  That's going to bring out lots of heartfelt comments and discussion.

[swilliams]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:11 AM, ParkMan said:

I think you're conflating issues here.  Yes there are YPT rules.  The point is that we shouldn't fall into the same trap we all describe the GSUSA of doing - assuming the women need to the leaders of troops with scouts who are girls. 

Aside from YPT rules, I envision a lot of fathers who are looking for ways to participate in the Scouting activities of their daughters.  If my daughter wants to join a troop I'll volunteer.

My daughter's Venture Crew (all girl) is led by three dads who started the crew for their daughters.  There are three women on the committee now (we're called 'Associate Advisors' ), but the main leaders are still men.

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, swilliams said:

My daughter's Venture Crew (all girl) is led by three dads who started the crew for their daughters.  There are three women on the committee now (we're called 'Associate Advisors' ), but the main leaders are still men.

My associate advisor made my crew!

[Eagle1993]

BSA filed paperwork Jan 23 requesting lawsuit to be dismissed.  I haven’t seen the actual document yet.

https://theblast.com/boy-scouts-girl-scouts-trademark-lawsuit-response/

[dkurtenbach]

The BSA motion to dismiss focuses on two of the GSUSA claims:  First, the claim that local BSA recruiting efforts that spread confusion and misinformation about girl Scouts / Girl Scouts interfered with Girl Scout recruiting and activities.  BSA's motion to dismiss argues that GSUSA failed to identify any specific instance in which interference actually occurred, or in which BSA members acted with malice, dishonesty, or unfair or improper means:  "The mere possibility of a lost recruit is not enough."  Second, the motion addresses the claim that GSUSA has "common law" (customary and court-made law, as opposed to statutory law) rights to the names "Scout" and "Scouting" in connection with programs for girls.  BSA argues that GSUSA is not actually using "Scout" and "Scouting" alone, without "Girl" in front of them, and actual use is required.  Further, the motion argues that GSUSA has disclaimed any right to those words because it has issued style guides that prohibit the use of "Scout" and "Scouting" alone without the modifier "Girl" -- GSUSA even stating that BSA has the rights to those words on their own.  The motion does not address GSUSA's statutory trademark infringement claims.

[Eagle1993]

This seems to align with the 1 hour long video where a patent and trademark attorney essentially say GSUSA lawsuit is weak outside the specific cases of usage of the term “Girl Scouts”.  

[Hawkwin]

Interesting story on NPR this week that made me think about this situation. The "Chose Your Own Adventure" publishing company is suing Netflix for copyright infringement because they use such in one of their shows. The NPR story indicated that the publisher is taking a risk in that the courts may decide that "chose your own adventure" has become generic and that they might actually commit "Genericide."

The GSUSA runs the risk that the court could say that the term "scout" is generic and as such, no one may copyright it.

From NPR:

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/24/688110253/adventure-series-book-publisher-sues-netflix-over-trademark

The word zipper was originally a trademark for a toothed closure. But people started using the word zipper for any toothed closure, and that trademark became worthless. It became generic.

Aspirin, thermos, escalator - just a few onetime trademarks that have succumbed to genericide.

[NJCubScouter]

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

The GSUSA runs the risk that the court could say that the term "scout" is generic and as such, no one may copyright it.

But the BSA has won trademark infringement cases that only involved "Scout" (as opposed to "Boy Scout"), which implies that the courts must have found "Scout" is NOT generic.  I do not know of any change in the last several years, or decades, that would produce a different result now that the BSA is on the other side of a lawsuit.