Girl Scouts Suing the Boy Scouts

[Treflienne]

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Nice!  I'm also saddened that we're loosing the name Boy Scouts.

Only sort-of.

While they will be in "Scouts BSA" rather than "Boy Scouts",  they will still be boy Scouts (which sounds the same) and part of the Boy Scouts of America.   I expect that people will still be calling them boy Scouts (or Boy Scouts) for years. 

By the way I'm finding it really awkward to need to avoid referring to the girls who will be Scouts as "girl Scouts".   What phrasing rolls off the tongue most easily for you?   Scout girls?  girl Boy Scouts?

2 hours ago, swilliams said:

"Simply put, we are Boy Scouts... who are girls! Why? Well, because we love being outdoors!"

 None of our girls has any issue being referred to as Boy Scouts.

When trying to recruit girls and their parents for "Scouts BSA" I am definitely using the name "Boy Scouts" since that is the name that families are already familiar with.

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

Only sort-of.

While they will be in "Scouts BSA" rather than "Boy Scouts",  they will still be boy Scouts (which sounds the same) and part of the Boy Scouts of America.   I expect that people will still be calling them boy Scouts (or Boy Scouts) for years. 

By the way I'm finding it really awkward to need to avoid referring to the girls who will be Scouts as "girl Scouts".   What phrasing rolls off the tongue most easily for you?   Scout girls?  girl Boy Scouts?

When trying to recruit girls and their parents for "Scouts BSA" I am definitely using the name "Boy Scouts" since that is the name that families are already familiar with.

I imagine it will linger for a number of years - perhaps decades.  I wish there were a way to preserve it formally, but alas do understand why not.  

I really have been trying to avoid a gender label so far.  i.e. "Boy Scouts for Girls".  If anything, I simply refer to it as Scouting and I refer to the youth as Scouts.  I've actually dropped the label boys a lot internally.   Instead of saying "the boys" or "the girls", I simply say "scouts" now.

[Treflienne]

55 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Instead of saying "the boys" or "the girls", I simply say "scouts" now.

I think that saying simply "scouts" is what will work in most situations in the long run.  And if you need to be more specific you can say something like "the Artemis Patrol"  (Hi @Hawkwin ) or  "Troop 19".    But at the present we, locally, just have a group of girls who are potentially interested in becoming Scouts who don't have a patrol name and don't have a troop number yet.

[RichardB]

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/12/05/scouts-bsa-brand-guidance

I'd suggest clicking thru all the resources included.    You should have also gotten a link to this via Scouting Wire if your email is up to date and you are a BSA volunteer.  

 

[Hawkwin]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see anywhere in that link that said what to call the actual girls that are in Scouts BSA.

[Treflienne]

What the infographic, which I'd seen before, says is

Quote

Never use the word “girl” before “Scouts.” 

I am being very careful to comply.   

To do so sometimes requires lengthy circumlocutions.

I am well aware of the need to avoid confusion.    After all my daughter, who wants to be a Scout (of the Scouts BSA variety) is also already a Girl Scout.  And she is a member of a Girl Scout Troop (of the GSUSA variety) , and wants to also join a Scout Troop (of the Scouts BSA variety) intended for girls. 

 

[dkurtenbach]

5 hours ago, Treflienne said:

When trying to recruit girls and their parents for "Scouts BSA" I am definitely using the name "Boy Scouts" since that is the name that families are already familiar with.

In my experience, almost no one outside BSA knows or uses the BSA acronym for the Boy Scouts of America organization.  It's "Boy Scouts" colloquially, and "Boy Scouts of America" more formally (like the first sentence in news reports, before they switch to just calling it "the Boy Scouts").  So a lot of folks will not automatically make the connection between "Scouts BSA" and "Boy Scouts."  And the shortest, simplest explanation is, "It's Boy Scouts."   

Because of single-gender troops, we're officially organizing the youth program to differentiate between one gender and another.  In effect, we're inviting our participants to refer to "girl (small 'g') Scouts" and "girl (small 'g') Scout troops" even as we're told not to use that word combination.  The Girl Scouts of the USA has a point -- It is inevitable that we will be infringing on the Girl Scout trademark without an appropriate modifier before "Scout."  

Using the term "Scout" or "Scouts" without a modifier to refer to BSA members could also be seen as demeaning to the Girl Scouts of the USA and that organization's members:  To say, "There are Scouts, and there are Girl Scouts," could sound to some like "There are real Scouts, and there are Girl Scouts." 

But you're not going to hear anyone using "BSA" as the modifier, either before or after "Scout."  For example:  "There's a BSA Scout over there talking to that Girl Scout" or "I saw some Scouts BSA (or Scout BSAs?) at the airport headed for Philmont."  It's awkward to say and looks odd when written, so it won't be used.  At least the term "girl Boy Scout" is simple, easy to say, and clear.

Unfamiliar to the people we're trying to recruit, internally inconsistent, confusing, possibly offensive, awkward to use in a sentence . . . "Scouts BSA" is not off to a good start as a brand name.

[Eagle94-A1]

All of this could could have been avoided if GSUSA went with Girl Guides like the BSA requested way back when. It could have also been avoided if we won the court case against the GSUSA for infringing on the term Scouts.

[ParkMan]

I don't see why we need to disambiguate Scout here.  If you are a Scout leader and are having a conversation about Scouting, I think you just simply say "we'd like you to visit our Scout troop" or to the parent "I'd like your daughter to visit our Scout troop."  Once you get beyond which set of program materials you use (BSA or GSUSA), it's really about why your troop's program is great anyways.  

If some parent is confused about what kind of Scout troop you have, I think you can launch into the 30 second explanation about how your troop is based on the program of the Boy Scouts of America and what makes that a great program.

[Treflienne]

So we've got four different Boy Scouts troops in our school district talking together about how to help a new girl's troop get started, and to which troop it will link.   And my daughter is also already a member of a Girl Scout troop.   It is easy for me to refer to these five scout troops as Troop 1, Troop 2, Troop 33, Troop 444, and Troop 77777. (Those aren't the actual numbers).   But to refer to the new, soon-to-be-started Scouts BSA troop for girls?   That takes a lot of words.  It will be easier once it has a number.

[ianwilkins]

19 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I imagine it will linger for a number of years - perhaps decades. 

UK story...last year I was on a plane with 56 other scouts all in matching t-shirts and neckers, on our way to summer camp. We clearly and obviously and unmistakably had girls amongst our number. There was an angry man on the plane. Got on red faced and cheesed off. He sits behind three of ours. I'm not sure what happened but I was sat across the aisle and a seat or two away in the same row, and I not infrequently heard him spluttering "****** boy scouts [inaudible muttering]". He was quite old. In the UK we dropped Boy from Boy Scouts in 1967. Nineteen sixty seven. Actually 50 years previous. So yes, definitely decades.

 

[Saltface]

14 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

There are real Scouts, and there are Girl Scouts.

I had to do a quick google search to verify that this is not, in fact, the rallying cry of some unkind troop somewhere.

[qwazse]

18 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I had to do a quick google search to verify that this is not, in fact, the rallying cry of some unkind troop somewhere.

Let's not whitewash things. You probably won't hear it from BSA units.  But ... I have met plenty of GS/USA members who effectively said their organization's use of the word is mere window dressing. They were shocked when I made it clear that such rhetoric was not tolerated in my crew (or in our VOA).

My reply was very simple: "When you want to stop complaining and do something about it, I'm here for you."

[dkurtenbach]

41 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I had to do a quick google search to verify that this is not, in fact, the rallying cry of some unkind troop somewhere.

OMG, I would hope not - but thanks for checking.  😌  Girl Scouts ARE real Scouts.  Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers, Sea Scouts, and STEM Scouts ARE real Scouts.  BSA wanting us to say, "We are Scouts, they are Girl Scouts" just sounds . . . problematic. 

[Eagle1993]

27 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

OMG, I would hope not - but thanks for checking.  😌  Girl Scouts ARE real Scouts.  Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers, Sea Scouts, and STEM Scouts ARE real Scouts.  BSA wanting us to say, "We are Scouts, they are Girl Scouts" just sounds . . . problematic. 

They want us to say “Scouts BSA”.  Where do you see BSA staying “We are Scouts....”?