Girl Scouts Suing the Boy Scouts

[awanatech]

6 hours ago, Setonfan said:

Do we really think parents are truly confused that both organizations exist?

Yes, people are confused that both organizations exist and are separate.  I have been surprised at the number of people who truly did not know that the 2 organizations were not the same.  And even more so to find out that they are not finally joining into one organization. 

[Treflienne]

The article says

Quote

The Girl Scouts seek a court order blocking the Boy Scouts from using the term “Scout,” “Scouts,” “Scouting” or “Scouts BSA” without an “inherently distinctive or distinguishing term appearing immediately before it.”

Seems like the pot calling the kettle black.  I don't know about the GSUSA national organization,  but I've heard plenty of girl scout leaders (GSUSA) refering to their group of kids as simply "scouts" and what they do as "scouting".   Generally one could tell from context which type of scouts was meant.  (And if necessary to prevent confusion, then they would say "Girl Scouts" or "Boy Scouts".)

 

[Eagle1993]

From FB Post

The following is an official statement from the BSA's National Council. Please be aware that any comments to the media should be made by the National or local Councils only. If you receive any media inquiries, please route them to PR@scouting.org. 

“We just became aware of the lawsuit filed in the Southern District Court of New York, and we are reviewing it carefully.

“Our decision to expand our program offerings for girls came after years of requests from families who wanted the option of the BSA’s character - and leadership-development programs for their children – boys and girls. We believe that we owe it to our current and future members to offer families the options they want.”

“We applaud every organization that builds character and leadership in children, including the Girl Scouts of the USA, and believe that there is an opportunity for both organizations to serve girls and boys in our communities.”

On background:

• The Boy Scouts of America has served girls in our programs since 1971 through Sea Scouts,
Venturing and Exploring; in fact, there are currently over 170,000 girls registered in Boy Scout of
America programs.

• In the time since we’ve welcomed both boys and girls in Cub Scouts, over 62,000 girls have registered underscoring families’ interest in the programs offered by the Boy Scouts of America.

• We take the brand and trademark of all organizations seriously and have worked proactively to differentiate our unique program offerings. Any time we have been made aware of an instance of potential confusion around our programs, we immediately took steps to correct and clarify."

Edited November 7, 2018 by Eagle1993
Added that this came from FB post

[Treflienne]

7 hours ago, Setonfan said:

Do we really think parents are truly confused that both organizations exist?

 

1 hour ago, awanatech said:

Yes, people are confused that both organizations exist and are separate.  I have been surprised at the number of people who truly did not know that the 2 organizations were not the same.  And even more so to find out that they are not finally joining into one organization. 

And we actually have a really simple situation with scouting in this country.  Compare it with France.  According to wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_France )

Quote

The Scout movement in France consists of about 80 different associations and federations with about 180,000 Scouts and Girl Guides.

 

[RememberSchiff]

8 hours ago, awanatech said:

Yes, people are confused that both organizations exist and are separate.  I have been surprised at the number of people who truly did not know that the 2 organizations were not the same.  And even more so to find out that they are not finally joining into one organization. 

Have not seen any confusion. One group sells cookies, the other does not.  Hmmm maybe that is it - some rumor that Scouts BSA will sell Scout Cookies - Slim Mints, Do-or-Don't,  Trailalongs, Gilwell Grins...  

Edited November 7, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[ianwilkins]

7 hours ago, Treflienne said:

 

And we actually have a really simple situation with scouting in this country.  Compare it with France.  According to wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_France )

 

Yes, I met some scouts from France a couple of years back, I don't know what branch they were in officially, they self described themselves as "we're like the hippy scouts of France", I think they were non-denominational. Lovely bunch. I guess in France if there isn't a branch that fits what you think scouting should be, you start a new organisation, and all the others just give a gallic shrug.

 

Suing other organisations seems like a much more sensible use of funds than using it to improve your own offering [eye roll]. But them I'm British, so I probably just don't understand, I'd probably stop at a quite loud "tut, or a strongly worded letter that could be summarized as "I say, that's a bit much isn't it?"

Edited November 7, 2018 by ianwilkins

[69RoadRunner]

11 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

Suing other organisations seems like a much more sensible use of funds than using it to improve your own offering [eye roll]. But them I'm British, so I probably just don't understand, I'd probably stop at a quite loud "tut, or a strongly worded letter that could be summarized as "I say, that's a bit much isn't it?"

Well, this is America where sue is more often a verb than a name.

To be fair, you know what they say, 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.

[Eagle1993]

9 hours ago, Treflienne said:

 

And we actually have a really simple situation with scouting in this country.  Compare it with France.  According to wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_France )

 

I wouldn’t be shocked if BSA/GSUSA settle and BSA helps fund a name change of GSUSA to Girl Guides USA.  Regardless of the name BSA chooses there could be confusion and GSUSA will want to differentiate.  Could be a big marketing refresh of their program and I don’t see BSA losing the term scouts.  Who knows, will be interesting to watch.  

[ParkMan]

15 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think some of the issue is local leaders and councils being “innovative”.  See below for an image used in the lawsuit.... clearly not from Nationals as their online forms crash too quickly to take screenshots.

 

 

I'm guessing that stuff like this will be hard for the BSA to police.  DIdn't they already write a letter saying not to use the term "girl scouts? of the images of the GSUSA?

[Eagledad]

The GSUSA in the past had a lot more political clout than the BSA. I would be surprised if that has changed. The girls have the heavy horses if they need them. 

Barry

[Treflienne]

46 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I wouldn’t be shocked if BSA/GSUSA settle and BSA helps fund a name change of GSUSA to Girl Guides USA.

I would be utterly shocked if GSUSA were willing to change their name to Girl Guides.   The name "Girl Guides" or "Guides" has, in my experience, very very little name recognition in the U.S.    Our young Girl Scouts always seem surprised to learn that Girl Scouts in other countries are called "Guides".    If GSUSA is worried about confusion over names with both GSUSA and BSA applying the word "scouts" to girls in this country,   then they would be even more concerned about the name-recognition suicide that would be the result of changing their name to "Guides".

[Eagle1993]

@Treflienne

You are probably right. My only thought is that BSA will not drop the use of Scouts and in the end, even if they are forced to change to BSA Scouts instead of Scouts BSA the confusion will remain.

 I did notice that my daughter (who is in both) has been seeing a lot of language from GSUSA about the power of G.I.R.L.s.  Emphasize on the girl vs scout.   Perhaps they are looking for a payout while keeping the name unchanged.

[Eagledad]

The GSUSA is a brand name, that mountain will not be moved. The BSA will cower down to the GSUSA because they have neither the funds nor the will to hold their ground.

This may be the motivation for the GSUSA to push a more outdoor program. Both programs are getting away from the original design of building future ethical and moral leaders. It may turn into a race to attract the best outdoor after school program. Ironically, family scouting might have an advantage.

Barry

[Treflienne]

4 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

a lot of language from GSUSA about the power of G.I.R.L.s

While the "G.I.R.L." advertising push is relatively new,  the girls-can-do-anything-including-in-fields-previously-offlimits-to-females emphasis of GSUSA has been around for a long time  -- I can remember it going back to at least the 1980's.  The ironic thing now is that their message now seems to be that it is great for girls to aspire to anything they desire, except joining the Boy Scouts.  

[cyphertext]

19 hours ago, Setonfan said:

Do we really think parents are truly confused that both organizations exist?

Yes, there are some parents that think Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are related organizations...  a lot of parents!  Throw in the marketing video with girls saying "Scout me in!", it can add to that confusion.  I don't know if GSUSA can win in a court of law, but I can see their point.