flag salute

[troop_358_potlatch]

This ? came up, and I was not sure of the answer. If you are wearing a class B shirt, do use hand over heart or scout salute?

[FScouter]

What is a "class B" shirt?

[Fat Old Guy]

The BSA activity shirt and troop activity shirts (there ain't no such thing as a "Class b shirt") are uniforms just as dungarees are a uniform in the Navy. Consequently, you salute.

[kenk]

My rule has always been, when in an official BSA uniform (shirt at a minimum - many Cubs choose NOT to wear neckerchiefs - mostly because the darn slides keep coming off), you salute. When not in uniform - even if a pack/troop standard t-shirt - you place hand over heart. Both are appropriate signs of respect for the flag.

 

Ken

[Bob White]

"My rule has always been, when in an official BSA uniform (shirt at a minimum...."

 

There are 1.5 million scout leaders. Should each be allowed to determine their own version of the uniform? Would it actually be "uniform" if we did? The BSA determines the uniform. Tiger cubs and Webelos have two uniforms, Wolf and Bear have one. Boy Scouts have two. (Venturers have to many to list). There is no "class A" or "Class B".

 

"many Cubs choose NOT to wear neckerchiefs"

 

I was unaware that neckerchiefs were made optional in Cubs Kenk. In fact the Cub Leader Handbook says that in Cub Scouts you should wear the complete uniform or no uniform at all. Wearing the Cub scout uniform shirt is just that ...wearing the shirt. It is not "in uniform".

 

The BSA has a purpose for the uniform (no it is not to sell more uniforms so I ask the grouches to refrain from responding) please review the unoforming information in the Cub Program and consider the benefits to the scouts of returning to a proper uniform method.

 

By the way to answer the question of the thread. You use the scout salute when you are "in uniform". That would mean any of the official uniforms of the BSA. Those would include Field, Activity, Dress. To understand which is which see the Insignia Guide, or attend Leader Specific Training for your particular program.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[acco40]

Which would mean what if a Scout was wearing his troop T-shirt (Class-B shirt for those who like that lingo), cargo pants, white socks, and sandals?

 

I agree with the use of a Scout salute when in uniform (I think we all do) but my interpretation is if one is not in "full" uniform, one is not in uniform. Therefore, if one was "wearing a class B shirt" it would depend on what else the Scout was wearing to determine the proper show of respect.

 

Now, on a scale of 1 - 10 of importance, I would rank this near the bottom of importance on the behavior scale.

[scoutldr]

I thought the official "party line" is that "scouts should be encouraged to wear as complete a uniform as possible."

[acco40]

Scouts AND Scouters (including committee members).

[Bob White]

"Which would mean what if a Scout was wearing his troop T-shirt (Class-B shirt for those who like that lingo), cargo pants, white socks, and sandals?"

 

Since that is not a scout uniform it would be the hand over the heart salute (often refered to as the civilian salute).

 

But the same troop t-shirt with scout shorts, scout belt scout socks, is a BSA activity uniform and the use of a Scout salute wold be appropriate.

 

I would agree that the most important thing is that the flag is shown courtesy and respect.

[Fat Old Guy]

So if a Scout is wearing his Scout shirt and blue jeans, he's not in uniform and should salute the flag by placing his hand over his heart?

 

 

[FScouter]

Plaid pants and purple shirt isn't a uniform either, but we'll give you special dispensation to salute anyway just to avoid an argument.

[Fat Old Guy]

Sorry F-Scooter but I leave the plaid to you. I know how much you like those Catholic school skirts.

[acco40]

Just a bit of trivia here (but it does have some relevance to saluting the flag) ... The term "under God" (and for FOG, notice no comma!) in the Pledge of Allegiance is garnering much press these days but an earlier Pledge controversy existed many years ago. The original Pledge (written by a socialist mind you) read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' The word 'equality,' was considered for the Pledge, but the author knew that the state superintendents of education were against equality for women and African Americans so he left it out so as not to create controversy. Now as told to me by my father, when reciting the Pledge in that form, many immigrants, who still felt more loyalty to their place of birth, would place a small flag of their "home" country in the palm of their right hand so when they placed their hand over their heart, concealing their flag, they would in effect be pledging allegiance to the "wrong" flag. To remedy this, school children were taught that when reciting the pledge they would place their hand over their heart (when not in uniform of course) and when the phrase "my flag" was spoken they would remove their hand from their chest and hold it straight out with their palms facing outward (very similar to the not yet existing Nazi salute that was to come a decade later!). This was all remedied in the mid 20s when, spearheaded by the American Legion and the DAR, the phrase "the Flag of the United States of America' replaced "my Flag" in the pledge, (against the wishes of the author). It wasn't until the "red scare" of the '50s when we wanted to differentiate ourselves from the "Godless communists" that the phrase "under God" was added making the pledge not just a patriotic oath but now, a public prayer.

[FScouter]

Its not a prayer unless you say "Amen" at the end.

[Bob White]

And all this time I thought what made something a prayer depended on who you were saying it to.