What is the Southern Region doing to recruit so many girls?

[Treflienne]

1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

I would imagine that more progressive areas will take up girls in scouting faster, and it will take a bit of time to trickle out to more traditional areas. 

We've got competing effects here.   One could alternately imagine that more progressive areas would favor Girl Scouts because of the feminism permeating the program materials.

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

Ironic that the socially conservative regions are leading in girls coming in while they're also leading with boys going out?

This is either just a bit of levity or a real paradox. Please pick the one that makes your day better.

No facts were harmed in this presentation. Only stunt facts were used and they are well cared for under the auspices of PETF (people for the ethical treatment of facts).

I'm leaning towards real paradox.

Venturing in our area seems to have stuck in more conservative (politically and socially) communities. The parents of female venturers who I've talked to do not believe in "girl power" or "safe spaces" as a means to equal and fair treatment of women. They see that their daughters will be better served working together with other boys and girls in an environment where sex-differences are not swept under the rug.

Likewise, I'm guessing that about half of conservative parents of boys want them spending quality time with other young men and women in an environment where they learn to treat one another with respect. (Mrs. Q and I certainly looked for that for our sons.) The other half want their boys to have a "safe space" from girls for a few years.

As boots-on-the-ground, I've found it a real challenge living up to the expectations of either "safe space" or "mutual respect." So much depends on neighborhood, media, and environments far beyond my control.

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Likewise, I'm guessing that about half of conservative parents of boys want them spending quality time with other young men and women in an environment where they learn to treat one another with respect. (Mrs. Q and I certainly looked for that for our sons.) The other half want their boys to have a "safe space" from girls for a few years.

Funny how we look at these things, I see a boys only program as quality time learning how to make valued decisions. It never occurred to me that a boys only program as safe space. But I can see why some here would feels good saying it that way. 

And, maybe it's the area we live in, but our boys and girls of this age spend almost their whole day of every day at school and church together along with many after school activities . Just how much more time do they need together to call it "quality time"? 

Barry

[walk in the woods]

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Funny how we look at these things, I see a boys only program as quality time learning how to make valued decisions. It never occurred to me that a boys only program as safe space. But I can see why some here would feels good saying it that way. 

And, maybe it's the area we live in, but our boys and girls of this age spend almost their whole day of every day at school and church together along with many after school activities . Just how much more time do they need together to call it "quality time"? 

Barry

Well, there are safe spaces and then there are safe spaces:

Safe space: a space set aside from the normal pressures of social life where people are free to experiment, fail, dust themselves off, and try again, under the guidance of trusted mentors, without fear of embarrassment.

Safe space: A space where grown adults run for coloring books and stuffed animals because someone said something that contravenes their world view.

[qwazse]

1 minute ago, Eagledad said:

Funny how we look at these things, I see a boys only program as quality time learning how to make valued decisions. It never occurred to me that a boys only program as safe space. But I can see why some here would feels good saying it that way. ...

I never thought to call it that either. That's the concern parents voiced when I was starting a crew.

4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

... And, maybe it's the area we live in, but our boys and girls of this age spend almost their whole day of every day at school and church together along with many after school activities . Just how much more time do they need together to call it "quality time"? ...

It could be where you lived. I was basically "stuck" with the same circle of girls in school, extracurricular, and church. And, yes, when it was time to go camping, getting away from them (and a few of the guys I always saw) as a real plus.

For my sons, those circles were non-overlapping. Then came the telecom revolution and the rise of post-modern nomadic life.

[Eagledad]

2 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I never thought to call it that either. That's the concern parents voiced when I was starting a crew.

Hmm, ok. 

Barry

[carebear3895]

Just from a Pro's perspective, I always take numbers with a huge grain of salt. You wouldn't believe how badly Council-paid membership programs (i.e. Scout reach) can be abused. 

 

Plus, With how Politically Liberal GSUSA has gotten, I could see a lot more parents choosing the BSA, as it is historically more conservative and in line with their own values. 

[ParkMan]

Living in the south myself, I suspect that conservative folks are most concerned about the values taught in the program. 

I don't think that they are all that concerned whether their kid's scout group is boys only, girls only, or co-ed.  Most church youth groups are co-ed, so if it's fine for youth group, it's fine for a scout troop.  We Scouters may have a perspective because we're invested in the program.  But, if you're a parent making the choice for the first time - I think that's a very different scenario.

[Jameson76]

46 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Just from a Pro's perspective, I always take numbers with a huge grain of salt.

What!!!  Numbers fudging in the BSA???  Sort of like this.....

[qwazse]

20 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

... We Scouters may have a perspective because we're invested in the program.  But, if you're a parent making the choice for the first time - I think that's a very different scenario.

Make's sense. Among my social media friends of friends, its the new-to-scouting parents who are asking question about which to choose. When I have an opportunity to reply, I suggest that question #1 should be "Are the leaders kind?"

Now, in my "seasoned scouter" rubric, kindness also includes a willingness to pack in 3 miles on the trail to camp in the cold with your scouts. And that could be the limiting factor in putting together units here up north.  We need to get moms and older sisters used to a certain "weather envelope" before we're really ready to offer girls the same program we offer boys. That doesn't make BSA4G impossible, it just tilts the odds against it ... because leaders of girls' dens will have a good sense that it's gonna have to be them in that snow for Klondike in a couple of years.

[Eagledad]

49 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Living in the south myself, I suspect that conservative folks are most concerned about the values taught in the program. 

I don't think that they are all that concerned whether their kid's scout group is boys only, girls only, or co-ed.  Most church youth groups are co-ed, so if it's fine for youth group, it's fine for a scout troop.  We Scouters may have a perspective because we're invested in the program.  But, if you're a parent making the choice for the first time - I think that's a very different scenario.

I feel the same with the Cub program, but not the Troop program. My feel is the success of going coed depends on the success of bringing girls through the cub program, just like the BSA has done with boys in the cub program. I think enough moms will step up to camping because they have been doing it for a long time. I just don' believe moms, or even inexperienced dads, will adapt and reinforce patrol method to it's full advantage because that is what I have observed from them so far.

Barry

[ParkMan]

49 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I feel the same with the Cub program, but not the Troop program. My feel is the success of going coed depends on the success of bringing girls through the cub program, just like the BSA has done with boys in the cub program. I think enough moms will step up to camping because they have been doing it for a long time. I just don' believe moms, or even inexperienced dads, will adapt and reinforce patrol method to it's full advantage because that is what I have observed from them so far.

Barry

That would fit with what I see here.  We have plenty of outdoor oriented moms and female leaders.  I get the sense that around here, there was a shift a few generations back where women started doing all the same kinds of outdoor things as men.  So, today we have many women who camp, hike, bike, fish, etc...  This could be regional and could be part of what is going on in the Southern region.  It is a part of the country where outdoor activities are fairly prevalent.

From a marketing perspective, this is where I think focusing on the outdoor aspect of the BSA makes sense.  Encouraging those girls who want outdoor adventure to join the BSA makes a lot of sense in my region.

Edited November 5, 2018 by ParkMan
extended one more thought

[KarenZ]

I see a lot of women' success in outdoor sports.  Some of those role models are influencing girls to run, bike, swim, etc. in greater numbers.  I personally am not an athlete, but I am inspired by those women to try new things that may not have been "for women" before.  That has got to be encouraging women to hike, climb, kayak, ski, etc. which all can be part of scouting.

The difference I see from the 80's to now in feminism is that Strong Women are very successful.  Lindsey Vonn, Danica Patrick, Venus Williams are great examples of that trend. Back when I was a teen, I was told that a woman could succeed in anything, but I wasn't seeing it.  Now, everyone can see and believe.

I'd be curious to hear from leaders in Colorado.  I have a 23 year old friend there who said that she was active compared to peers in the south, but now in Colorado she's nearly a couch-potato because all her peers are so active (hiking, biking, and everything else).  Therefore, outdoor activities must be common not just because of the weather, but also the culture of fitness and taking advantage of the outdoors.

KarenZ

[Hawkwin]

20 hours ago, ParkMan said:

So, today we have many women who camp, hike, bike, fish, etc...  This could be regional and could be part of what is going on in the Southern region.  It is a part of the country where outdoor activities are fairly prevalent.

 

Maybe not so regional. From today:

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/06/663112361/luring-more-women-to-fishing-in-the-upper-great-lakes

Snip:

In 2016, about 14 percent of Americans fished, and most of them were men. But a recent study on the Upper Great Lakes indicates female participation is on the rise. It found that fishing license sales increased among female anglers by about 4.5 percent between 2000 and 2015. That's an additional 43,000 female anglers.

--------------

 

[MattR]

2 hours ago, KarenZ said:

I'd be curious to hear from leaders in Colorado.  I have a 23 year old friend there who said that she was active compared to peers in the south, but now in Colorado she's nearly a couch-potato because all her peers are so active (hiking, biking, and everything else).  Therefore, outdoor activities must be common not just because of the weather, but also the culture of fitness and taking advantage of the outdoors.

Welcome to the forum. I live in Colorado. Weather is part of it. Nice mountains are also a big draw.

It does attract the super crazies. At one point we had a guy that had swum the English Channel in our troop along with a group that had hiked the Grand Canyon from rim to rim and back in 19 hours. My son rode his bike from the front range (5000') up to the Longs Peak trailhead (9000' and 50 miles), hiked to the top with me (7 miles, 14,200') and then went all the way back. 20 hours of aerobic activity. That's considered a nice challenge but nothing special. Century ride in the mountains with 20,000 feet of elevation gain? You get a nice tee shirt. There are lots of ex bike racers. I think everyone gets humbled around here. I'm thankful for my age because I don't have to worry about all the people passing me up. The good news is I'm out there plodding along. It's not just a guy thing either. Plenty of women do this as well. It's more about age. This gene does not engage until you're at least in your 20's. I don't see scouts wanting to push themselves like this. BTW, it's also not a Colorado thing. Check out Alex Honnold and free soloing El Capitain in Yosemite. That is so far beyond crazy.

Like everything else there are those that do and those that don't when it comes to any challenge. The world is splitting along these types of things. The real challenge might be keeping your life in balance.