New Scouts BSA marketing video

[SSF]

43 minutes ago, shortridge said:

No one’s eliminating anything. You are not being censored. I’m simply asking that the same standard be applied to discussions of the BSA program now that it is accepting girls as was applied when it was rejecting them. Comments of the sort you are making were spun off into I&P threads in years past when they were on the other side of the fence.

As to my misunderstanding of your comments - sir, two of the sentences in your original post referred to the video. The others were about how the BSA has changed. That speaks for itself.

Please let those of us who want to discuss the program as it is have these program subforums. If you want to change it or bemoan the changes, then go to I&P. That is the place for it.

Thanks! I’ll wait for the mods to make a ruling one way or the other.

Does it really matter which thread this discussion is included in? 

If there was no issue when all of the comments towards the video were positive, then there's no issue when some of the comments are critical or negative. It's not reasonable in my opinion to begin moving posts around just because someone offers an opposing view to the original poster.

What I'm taken aback by in the video is the rather arrogant smirk that the one girl displays after shooting a bullseye on the target. She is not smiling, she is clearly smirking.

I think the director intended for that target to represent the traditional Boy Scouts of America; i.e. 'Scouts BSA' is taking aim at the traditional, and now former, Boy Scouts of America...that's my take on the video.

[qwazse]

After some thought, as requested.

An unwritten, required, part of my advisor uniform: a thick skin.

For about every five favorable reactions to our crew launching, I got an unfavorable reaction. Of the negative reactions, the ones to to my face were preferable to the backbiting. But, at first, I was not prepared for either reaction, and it took observing the council Venturing Officers Association and talking to the Venturing committee to get confidence that I could run a program that would ensure female youth were welcome and respected. They told me that although my "by the book" approach to Boy Scouts and Venturing was a little crazy, it was also right. An area commissioner also told me to check out scouter.com for more perspective.

This forum is a great opportunity to "hear it first" here, preparing us for reactions in our other spheres. I shared this vid with my daughter yesterday, and she liked it. I expect to share this vid on my social media soon. I expect some of my friends to not share her enthusiasm and to reply in a fashion that is not nearly as courteous as the posts here. But, at least I can tell someone who replies that way that he/she's not alone, and I've read the opinion elsewhere.

As to a general attitude towards negative reactions, I've found the "... and that's that" attitude to be the least conducive to personal growth.

[RememberSchiff]

A lot going on in this topic, I am still sorting through replies.  I might split some replies into new topic(s).

My impression of the video was more fantasy as it showed a group of scouts on an unsupervised patrol outing, i.e., patrol method and no adults. Don't I wish that were still true.

As to digs to other youth groups past or present. IMO, the smores (a Girl Scout invention) at the end, was that implying girls could now have the best of both - the BSA patrol method and Girl Scout smores?  

My $0.02 and let's be a little kinder otherwise this topic may be moved to I & P

Thanks,

RS

P.S. I did split up replies about Two-deep to a new topic. 

@NJCubScouter @MattR @desertrat77 @LeCastor @John-in-KC

Edited November 3, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[ParkMan]

I'd just welcome a place to talk Scouting where many threads didn't end in a negative criticism of something.  Girls in Scouting, patrol method and YPT, Wood Badge, etc.  It wears me out to just keep being so negative.  I'd love for a thread on a recruiting video to be about great ways to make that happen - not about the the masculinity of girls or the death of patrol method.

I respect the energy and passion you all have for Scouting.  I understand how many are very frustrated about the changes in Scouting.  I just feel like we get so negative so quickly.  I simply thought that maybe we could find a way to let and encourage people to vent but still have a place for discussion about program mechanics.

[qwazse]

There's more where that video came from. The BSA communications Youtube site is cranking out a few that can be clipped for boys, girls, or both, as well as leaders. I think I like this one best so far. It's a little bit much on the big zip-lines, but it ends with astronomy. Always a win for me.

 

[The Latin Scot]

9 hours ago, shortridge said:

No one’s eliminating anything. You are not being censored. I’m simply asking that the same standard be applied to discussions of the BSA program now that it is accepting girls as was applied when it was rejecting them. Comments of the sort you are making were spun off into I&P threads in years past when they were on the other side of the fence.

As to my misunderstanding of your comments - sir, two of the sentences in your original post referred to the video. The others were about how the BSA has changed. That speaks for itself.

Please let those of us who want to discuss the program as it is have these program subforums. If you want to change it or bemoan the changes, then go to I&P. That is the place for it.

Thanks! I’ll wait for the mods to make a ruling one way or the other.

I am sorry you have decided to misinterpret my comments so insistently, but it is not your place to make such a request of me. I have been decidedly on-topic, but unfortunately you don't seem to like my opinions and you want me to take them elsewhere. So I will do you one better. I will leave this thread entirely without adding further comments of my own. However, I request that my comments NOT be moved to some other thread, because they express my feelings on the video shared - exactly on-topic. They belong here, in this discussion, not in some other thread - I have the right to express an opposing point of view, haven't I? I want to make it clear that I do NOT like the video. That is absolutely fair. So, we will both win - you can perpetuate your feelings in this thread now without fear that I will oppose them, but my I ask that my comments remain so that my thoughts about the topic are known, which is very important to me.

However, it is now my turn to make a request - please do not tell me where I should post anything again when you are in no position to do so. I know where my thoughts belong, and anyway that is not your privilege; there are moderators here for a reason, and they have  a much clearer, more objective sense of what should transpire on these forums than either of us. And in any case I shan't oblige you, much as I should love to be more accommodating to your sensitivities. 

So now, that will be the last of my comments here; discuss the video at your leisure free from my troubling opinions. Sadly, that is what I had been trying to do all along.

[shortridge]

21 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

However, it is now my turn to make a request - please do not tell me where I should post anything again when you are in no position to do so. 

I’m going to dip back in here to point out that I never told you or any other member to do anything. I stated that the proper place for that type of commentary and discussion was in I&P, based on my understanding of the longtime precedents set by mods here in years past. Comments and threads critical of the BSA’s previous membership rules were shunted over there out of the main program subforums. That has been the consistent approach, and I’m simply asking* the mods to follow their past practice.

* not telling

[Treflienne]

On 11/3/2018 at 12:40 PM, RememberSchiff said:

As to digs to other youth groups past or present. IMO, the smores (a Girl Scout invention) at the end, was that implying girls could now have the best of both - the BSA patrol method and Girl Scout smores?

Just as they sang "Softly Falls" and "Ging Gang Goolie" as Girl Scouts, will the girls still be able to sing "On my honor" as Scouts BSA?

[Treflienne]

On 11/3/2018 at 12:17 PM, qwazse said:

This forum is a great opportunity to "hear it first" here, preparing us for reactions in our other spheres.

That's a major reason why I've been here.

I'd rather learn what the sensitive topics are on scouter forum,  than learn what they are by accidentally offending people I will need to work with in order to help get a Scouts BSA troop for girls going.

[Hawkwin]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, Treflienne said:

And typically look really, really, really sloppy. 

The GSUSA gave up on a "uniform" look uniform in the early 1970s when they went mix-and-match.

Actually having a uniform is one of the things about BSA that appeals to my daughter.

Honestly, I would take a sash over the 3XX smock I see most of them in. How is anyone supposed to look neat in article of clothing that hangs from the shoulders with no connectors in the middle. Every time I see an older girl in one they look sloppy.

 

Since Scouts was modeled on the military, it makes complete sense to me that we have a dress uniform (class A), a field uniform (class B - a shirt with a place for official rank and not much else), and for those troops that want such, a troop specific athletic uniform (class C) that is a tshirt.

Leave the dress uniform at home when going on camp outs or other outdoor activities, just like the military would do.

[Jameson76]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:49 AM, Treflienne said:

And typically look really, really, really sloppy. 

The GSUSA gave up on a "uniform" look uniform in the early 1970s when they went mix-and-match.

Actually having a uniform is one of the things about BSA that appeals to my daughter.

When Worf in Next Generation Star Trek started wearing the sash I always thought it looked like he had joined the Girl Scouts...(Today is a good day to sell cookies)

On Scout Sunday we have Cubs, Boy Scouts, and the Girl Scouts at the church.  The Girl Scouts always look a little random, vest, sashes, not sure..

The uniform is part of the identity of the Boy Scouts.  Wearing the uniform is an outward and visible sign of the membership in the organization

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

When Worf in Next Generation Star Trek started wearing the sash I always thought it looked like he had joined the Girl Scouts...(Today is a good day to sell cookies)

On Scout Sunday we have Cubs, Boy Scouts, and the Girl Scouts at the church.  The Girl Scouts always look a little random, vest, sashes, not sure..

The uniform is part of the identity of the Boy Scouts.  Wearing the uniform is an outward and visible sign of the membership in the organization

The Girl Scouts organization was taken over in the 70's by the women's rights movement and they lost their identity of purpose. Their uniform change ironically symbolized that loss.

Our town has a huge 4th of July parade every year and the Boy Scouts lead it holding a 100 foot long American Flag. I don't really know the numbers, but probably between 750 to 1000 Cubs, Troops, and Venturing scouts leading the 4 hour parade. It's very cool. 

Right behind the Boy Scouts are roughly 75 (if that many) Girl Scouts in shorts and t-shirts. The only thing uniform about them is their sash, if they wore it. If it weren't for the signs on their float, nobody would know who they are. 

Interestingly some of the media today still portrays the Girl Scouts in their old traditional green skirts. Girl Scouts doesn't even have to be mentioned, the uniform is a give-away. I still rollover laughing when I watch the Girl Scouts in the movie Dodge Ball. 

But the uniform is much more than identity for the Boy Scouts, the uniform is symbol of goodness, character and integrity. It is a symbol of traditional ideals and values. Anyone ever heard of a Girl Scout walking a little ol lady across the street? Ideals and values require discipline. Discipline is neat and tidy, or uniform. Some Eagle here on this forum believes the uniform is changing because units aren't wearing them correctly anymore. For me, that is symbolic of the BSA loosing it's image of values and discipline. As our culture becomes more self-serving, the uniform will be indicative of those cultural changes by becoming less uniform. Still, I would be surprised if National changes the uniform too much in the future because it is a big supplement of their funding.

Barry

Edited November 5, 2018 by Eagledad