A Scout is Reverent?

[scoutldr]

I recently was invited to sit on an Eagle Board of Review. The scout had no letter of reference from a religious leader...because he did not have a religious leader. It was evident from the questions and answers that the scout had never had a religious component to his home life. His answer to "what does 'A Scout is Reverent' mean to you", was "I guess it means going to church and stuff."

 

Maybe the Eagle Scout's application should never have made it that far, but it did. Should we have terminated the BOR and said, "sorry, close, but no cigar." This was a troop committee-run BOR.

 

Another troop committee told me that the DC who sat on their last Eagle Board told them that religion questions were off limits. The scout met the joining requirements and that's all they needed to know.

 

If we really start enforcing the BSA policy that I posted in the other forum, that Eagle percentage is gonna fall back to around 1%.

[Jason OK]

Maybe as adult leaders we are not making sure our scouts are following the law. I say we get some nads and get more involved in their life.

[LovetoCamp]

I'm fairly certain that the requirement would be he needed a letter, not necessarily from a religious leader, but from a person who can attest that he lives his life according to the Scout Oath and the Scout Law and has a belief in God.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

I heard of an Eagle BOR around here that lasted for 4 hours because of this subject. Eventually, the candidate stated that he could accept that there was a higher power in the universe. In hearing about it, I felt the BOR bent over backward to get a candidate to "say the right words", so they could approve him. I would rather they stop the review and ask him to look deeper at his convictions and those of the BSA, and evaluate whether he truly met the requirements set forth.

[scoutldr]

Pounder, here is the requirement:

Eagle Scout Requirement 2: Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life. List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf.

If the blank on the application for "religious leader" is left blank, should the application even be processed by Council? As the District Rep to the BOR, I feel this put me in a very untenable position. If the Council registrar, SM, and CC have all signified that all requirements were met, who am I to disagree?

[dsteele]

In Sctldr's post, the actual requirement is listed. I don't see where it requires a letter. In fact the word "letter" is no where in the requirement, let alone "religious leader."

 

Am I missing something?

 

What I see/ interpret is that the candidate must provide a list of those who would be willing to attest to his character.

 

Unc.

[scoutldr]

On the Eagle Scout Application, there are spaces for listing the names and addresses of your references. The spaces are labeled:

 

Parents/Guardians

Religious

Employer (if any)

Education

2 others of your choice

 

For a total of six references. The one marked "Employer" is the only one which appears to be optional.

 

So, I guess technically, the requirement is to provide names and addresses. Actually getting reference letters is not specified and would be "adding to the requirements". Even if the references are not favorable, the requirement has still been met.

[Bob White]

What has caused the problem here are two errors in the original post. The first is the suggestion that the eagle application requires a recommendation from a religious leader. It does not.

The second error is that a letter is required. it is not.

 

What is required for the scout to supply are the contact names and information for 6 specific references.

1. Parents/Guardians

2. Religious

3. Educational

4. Employer (if any)

5. Two other references

 

Note that the ONLY optional one is employer. If the scout does not have one he cannot give one. but that is the only optional one.

 

A religious leader is not required but someone who can speak to the scouts performance in his Duty to God is a required contact. Without it the application cannot be denied but it should have been enough to keep the scout from passing the Board. Had previous boards fulfilled their responsibility this problem would never have had to be breeched.

 

A letter is not required it is an option that the District Advancement committee can choose. These references can also be followed up on by using personal contacts or the telephone. (see "The Twelve Steps From Life to Eagle" in the the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual.)

 

A Scout who could not show any evidence of fulfilling his Duty to God could be denied advancement and no appeals board would reverse it.

 

The question to ask is not "what does A Scout is reverent mean to you?" taht just asks for a definition. The question to ask is "How do you fulfill your obligation to do your best to 'Do your Duty to God'?".

 

 

[scoutingagain]

BW, Thanks for the explanation.

 

If I understand things correctly, the Religious Reference is just that. Someone, anyone, who can attest to the scout's efforts to do his duty to God, (and respect the beliefs of others or others who have different beliefs, but that's the other thread.) not necessarily a Pastor, Rabbi, Minister or other Religious Leader, although I can see how those would be prefered.

 

SA

 

 

[firstpusk]

I think that the Scoutmaster here let everyone down. The SM should be discussing the law and oath with the scout at each and every SM conference. Any Eagle candidate should have a thorough understanding of these principals by the time they are going to an Eagle Board. The very first SM should cover the joining requirements. The new scout should understand and agree to live by the oath, law, motto, slogan and the outdoor code.

 

I have had several Eagles whose families were not church going. The religious reference needs to be discussed with any candidate. Here again, the SM and the Advancement Committee Chair should ensure the scout understands all of the requirements for Eagle. When I acted as SM, no Eagle application was signed off unless it was completed.

[scoutingagain]

One other thing.

 

I believe Requirement 2, listed earlier is looking for more than just meeting the membership requirements. Meeting the membership requirements will earn Scout. The Scout agrees to do his best to live up to the Scout Oath and Law. The Eagle Candidate and Candidates for other ranks should be able to show evidence of their efforts to do.

 

SA

 

 

[Bob White]

Scoutingagain

you are correct in both of your last posts

[boleta]

The Eagle Scout candidate is asked how he fulfills the Oath- "do my best to do my duty to God..." and the Law- a scout is reverent. This is a very personal and private matter and the Board is asking for a satisfactory response to this. Recently, I was helping a scout as an advisor with his Eagle application. His family does not actively go to church. I suggested that he had siginificant experience through scouting- Blessings before meals, services with the troop on campouts, invocations with meetings. There are service projects for our CO which is a church. I suggested that he read again the handbook. It talks about how the wonders of nature and the beauty of our world show us daily the presence of God.

The ASM for his patrol was knowledgeable about his activities and was able to write the religious reference for him. Our District Advancement Chairman likes to sit on Eagle Boards. He privately ranks the candidates. He will say- that kid was a 10. Maybe he will look at this scout and say he is a 2 with regard to duty to God and Reverence. But he may still deserve to be an Eagle.

I think Scouting can have a dramatic effect on the lives of kids. It may cause many of these young men to consider God when they would not otherwise have had this influence in their life.

[NeilLup]

Hello Scoutldr,

 

With respect to the Eagle BOR, they may have phrased the question a bit more helpfully. I would suggest that the question should be "How do YOU honor the point of the Law 'A Scout is Reverent.' " or "How do YOU do your best to do your Duty to God?" It isn't supposed to be some abstruse philosophical discussion, rather it is very practical and personal.

 

At the same time, if the boy doesn't have a very religious home life, he may require some help and guidance and counseling by the Board. Boleta lays out very nicely how this can be done. I have heard of Board of Review in some parts of the country which give the boy an exceedingly hard time if he doesn't accept Jesus Christ as his personal savior. This is highly inappropriate.

 

This is not supposed to be some last line of defense to trap an nascent atheist before he becomes an Eagle Scout. Presumably, for years, they boy has been pledging to the Oath and Law. It is a discussion of one of the points of the Oath and Law just like the discussion of the other points.

[evmori]

Bob White is absolutely correct. Letters of reference are not required. What is required is that references be supplied by the Eagle candidate and it is then up to the District Advancement Committee to get the references.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10