Eagle Project question... help

[Thunderbird]

52 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I'm sure he is speaking of the idealistic rule of a selfless motivation to a noble objective. The rule is no less and no more than the same motivation for helping the little ol lady across the street. 

Barry

I thought @Ranman328 was referring to some kind of rule that requires the Eagle Scout project to benefit the charter organization?  As far as I know, the project can benefit any religious organization, any school, or the Scout's community (and "community" is defined very, very loosely).  I can see how it might be good idea to do a project that benefits the charter organization, but I don't know of any rule to do so.

[T2Eagle]

I think this is the start of a good project, and i'm not surprised that it wasn't given the green light right away.  Projects that are unusual are often treated skeptically because that's human nature.  I suspect that what caused the greatest skepticism, besides its novelty, was that it is centered on donating only his legos and that the benefit to the school may not have been clear or convincing.

If your son wants to follow through with this I would suggest two things: 1) get in contact with the school and get their support, in writing, for the project, including specifically why this would be particularly helpful to the school's unique mission; 2) expand the project to include a drive to collect other lego kits so that it isn't just about his own donation, and yes, include some sort of storage container, purpose built or purchased, so that you are giving the school a complete package.

Best of luck to him.

Edited October 30, 2018 by T2Eagle

[ASMmom1976]

I appreciate all the feedback.  I’m very convinced my son can make the project work.  

I just think it’s kind of sad that something new and unique is met with negativity.  Maybe I should join the Eagle Project coordinator team to help give positive support to boys who come up with new ideas.

theres no doubt in my mind that my son who has ADHD and PTSD did not communicate all the talking points very well.  He sensed disapproval and negativity and got discouraged.

i told him last night, buddy it’s sad when someone doesn’t believe in the value or ingenuity of your project... so in the face of adversity... PROVE THEM WRONG!!!!!!

 

[MattR]

I think it's the start of a great project. However, I don't know the details. When we see a project that seems light on leadership (when someone says routine labor) we start asking for details. We also encourage the scout to go back to the recipient of the project and ask for more. Not just more work but how to make it better. In the case of the lego kits, let's say two kids are playing with their kit right next to each other. The kits will get all mixed up. What's a solution to that problem? Also, he has the instructions, but does he have electronic versions for when they get destroyed? Are the instruction appropriate for all of the children at this facility? For example, kids that are dyslexic would likely appreciate instructions in a bigger format. Are the kits in their original boxes, which will get destroyed, or will they be in small tubs? Where will the tubs be stored and how will the children know what they're building?

Any project can be made more complex by just scaling it up. 50 kits is nice, but go through your neighborhood and do a lego drive. You'll have 500 kits. Now what? Do this for 500 kits and you have a major project that is really cool.

The bottom line here is talk to someone that works with these children to figure out how to make this work for them.

I am surprised that the troop was one gate keeper on ideas. Scouts in my troop present to the committee and the committee helps dig in to understand, all with the goal of helping the scout come up with a good project. There is a lot of changing minds going on as we dig deeper.

28 minutes ago, ASMmom1976 said:

theres no doubt in my mind that my son who has ADHD and PTSD did not communicate all the talking points very well.  He sensed disapproval and negativity and got discouraged.

And he likely gave up, clammed up, and that was it. I'd suggest finding an adult that can coach him through this. These are the guys that usually get the mentor's pins.

[HashTagScouts]

How you have explained the project idea sounds as though it validly is truly a project.  Without knowing explicitly what your son discussed with the coordinator may indeed be the issue.  When formulating the project idea and getting the approval to move ahead, the scout has to be able to explain it with enough detail to show that there is both value to the receiving organization/entity, AND how the scout is going to demonstrate leadership through the project.  Just taking ones own Lego sets and donating them could just be as simple as "here's my giant bin of Lego bricks" - however, explaining that each set has to be catalogued, separated, and missing parts will need to be obtained, and that each set will be put into its own container sounds like project planning to me.  So, this could be more about coaching your son about how to detail and present himself.  While fundraising isn't explicitly a requirement to an Eagle project, that could be an area to discuss with your son- on one hand, how many containers will be needed, what is his best-guess estimate on how much $ may be needed to purchase missing bricks? Adding those general considerations to his proposal might be helpful to the coordinator.  There could also be a "drive" of sorts added to this, such as asking the other members of the troop if they have any sets they wish to donate and include in the cataloguing process (it also can show that your son is going to need to demonstrate leadership by involving others in this effort, which might not have been so explicitly understood from his first round).  

I would definitely help your son to understand that he should not just give up- sometimes you just have to rethink your strategy, which is as others have pointed out part of the process.  Watch any episode of Shark Tank, and you can understand that it can often be how you present an idea and how you can answer questions in defense of it that is what matters to whether you get the deal or not.  This is a capstone to the top rank in Scouting- it shouldn't be the easiest thing you have ever done while a scout, and arguably should require you demonstrating the knowledge you have obtained as a scout.  My son stumbled a little bit with his Eagle coach, and the advice I gave him was to remember that Communication MB is one of the Eagle required badges for a reason, so think and spend twice as much time on how he was going to present his idea than he spent on the actual write up.  I wish your son luck and hope he doesn't give up on it.

[walk in the woods]

I like the project idea.

Coordinating the work day to disassemble the sets, log the individual pieces present and missing, stowing the pieces, and following up would be fine.  He'd need to talk about how he'd coordinate that work with his troop, youth group, or whomever is going to do the work.  What supplies would be required for the cataloging and how he'd keep it all straight to get the replacement pieces involved.

I'd stop thinking in terms of purchasing containers or purchasing extra bricks.  Your scout should consider talking to his local lego store or writing the company directly to ask for donations for the missing pieces.  He should consider what kind of fundraiser he might do with the school to raise the funds if he can't get the donation (extra funds raised go to the sponsoring organizaiton anyway so maybe they could purchase a cabinet, other kits, etc.). 

If there is a video in the works he should think about it not as a presenter but as the director.  Who writes the script, who is presenter, is it interview based, who can he coordinate to do the editing/post production, etc.  

[fred johnson]

2 hours ago, ASMmom1976 said:

... Maybe I should join the Eagle Project coordinator team to help give positive support to boys who come up with new ideas. ...

I strongly encourage it.  It's the exact reason I got involved.  I was very upset how things were happening years ago.

BUT ... Don't announce you'd like to volunteer to change things.  I'd instead get to know people, build friendships, build knowledge and become known to them.  Then when an opening happens, step up.  It sounds like you fully understand that our role is less about saying no and more about helping the scout succeed and finding ways to make things work.  

[WisconsinMomma]

I think it's an interesting project idea, and I'm curious about what the beneficiary thinks of it.  Will they be on board?  Is there anything else that they need even more than the Legos?  

Storage is not a bad idea -- as a person who has a lot of legos in my house, I think that having an organized way to keep the sets together (whether it is purchased plastic bins or built) and labeled, etc. might be good.  Maybe from a construction standpoint they'd like some Lego tables or workstations for the kids to use too.   Maybe your son could expand his project by seeking some donations from the community -- that requires more effort and organization. 

I think he's got a good start, but it might need a little more oomph to get it approved.   Encourage him not to give up and to think of ways that he can make his project even more meaningful.  I think the video idea is very good.  I wonder if he could share his video with even more people, maybe the parents and kids at that school too?   Maybe he could do some research on how manipulatives like Legos work people's brains?  Maybe he could design some of his own Lego creations with instructions?  Maybe there are actual Lego learning exercises that he could incorporate into his plans?  I don't know, just throwing stuff out there.   Perhaps he could make a video that would be fun for the studens to watch?  You can do a million things with stop animation. 

I would be concerned about not overwhelming the recipient with too many Legos because that can be a problem too!  He should have  a plan for communicating with them and working to fit into their needs and wants. 

Good luck to your son! 

Edited October 30, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[my_three_sons]

There has been a bunch of great advice so far my two cents would be that most ideas get shot down because the scout's idea wasn't reflected in the workbook. If the scout needs to explain the project after the coordinator looks at his workbook he needs to go back expand on his idea in the workbook.  I always tell scouts that pictures are great to get your idea across{they are worth 1000 words} since most people won't read thru a workbook completely when they can just look a few pictures to get the premise.  Maybe bring an example kit with or at least the instruction so the coordinator can see the scope of the project.  Lastly, don't let your son get discouraged this is the part of the project where you want to find issues and flush out details it makes the rest of the project go much easier.

[ASMmom1976]

32 minutes ago, my_three_sons said:

There has been a bunch of great advice so far my two cents would be that most ideas get shot down because the scout's idea wasn't reflected in the workbook. If the scout needs to explain the project after the coordinator looks at his workbook he needs to go back expand on his idea in the workbook.  I always tell scouts that pictures are great to get your idea across{they are worth 1000 words} since most people won't read thru a workbook completely when they can just look a few pictures to get the premise.  Maybe bring an example kit with or at least the instruction so the coordinator can see the scope of the project.  Lastly, don't let your son get discouraged this is the part of the project where you want to find issues and flush out details it makes the rest of the project go much easier.

I totally agree that there has been a bunch of great advice, and I really appreciate your idea of using pictures.  My son get very overwhelmed by the concept of speaking and defensing, but I now think that if he can story board the project using photos and art and catch phrases, it will help him navigate his anxiety.  one thing I should have made more clear when I wrote what I wrote last night was that the eagle project coordinator did not make it clear that my son needed to have all the details completed cemented to begin the coaching or planning process.  He came with an idea, and a beneficiary and their approval.  My son is only 14.  Yes, he's young.  Too many people in scouting use age as a discriminating factor.  Why is he doing this now? He should wait until he's more mature....etc.  But I have seen the direct affects of what waiting to the last minute to do your eagle project looks like.  Boys rushing to meet a drop dead deadline and their hearts aren't really in it.  As his mother and a scout leader....I want for him and any boy who is ready to start this process to take it on when they are eager to do so.  The younger a scout is and the more challenges they have (in my son's case ADHD and PTSD), the more cheerleading they need.  Thank you for your wisdom and encouragement.

[ASMmom1976]

2 hours ago, fred johnson said:

I strongly encourage it.  It's the exact reason I got involved.  I was very upset how things were happening years ago.

BUT ... Don't announce you'd like to volunteer to change things.  I'd instead get to know people, build friendships, build knowledge and become known to them.  Then when an opening happens, step up.  It sounds like you fully understand that our role is less about saying no and more about helping the scout succeed and finding ways to make things work.  

lol, yeah storming in to strong arm something will end badly.  I think it's so sad when someone is forced into a role they no longer want to have and it trickles down onto the boys.  If a scout is cheerful, then their leader ought to be cheerful too.  Boys learn WAY more by observing the behavior of others than they do from memorizing words in their scout book.  

[ASMmom1976]

3 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

I like the project idea.

I'd stop thinking in terms of purchasing containers or purchasing extra bricks.  Your scout should consider talking to his local lego store or writing the company directly to ask for donations for the missing pieces.  He should consider what kind of fundraiser he might do with the school to raise the funds if he can't get the donation (extra funds raised go to the sponsoring organizaiton anyway so maybe they could purchase a cabinet, other kits, etc.). 

If there is a video in the works he should think about it not as a presenter but as the director.  Who writes the script, who is presenter, is it interview based, who can he coordinate to do the editing/post production, etc.  

these are fantastic ideas and suggestions.  Thank you!

[ValleyBoy]

6 hours ago, denibug72 said:

I have to disagree with ValleyBoy.  I'm part of our district advancement committee and sit on the project approval boards each month for the district.  Depending on how he presented his project to us, I could see it being approved in our district.  As others have said, there is no building requirement for Eagle projects, and I definitely don't see this as a routine labor situation.  Valleyboy, if he held some kind of a collection drive to collect more Lego sets, would that help his project in your district?  As it is, I honestly see enough chances for him to show leadership in the project as it is, but he'd have to be able to articulate it in his presentation.  I love that he has a connection to the beneficiary - so many of the projects we see in the district don't have that, so it's refreshing when we have a scout that has an out of the box idea like this come up for approval.

 Could this project meet the requirements of an Eagle Project in the district that I am in?  Yes if the scout presenting the project the for approval can show that there is more to his project than just repackaging Lego sets and then presenting then to the school..  

The main issue here could be in how ASMmom1976 son presented this project idea to his project coach and how her son interpreted his coaches response on the project idea   Also if you go back and reread the first post the project coach told here son that for this project to get approved by council  it was going to take more, and his suggestion  was building storage cabinets. 

So to answer your question a collection drive to collect more Lego sets would help. 

[HashTagScouts]

28 minutes ago, ASMmom1976 said:

I totally agree that there has been a bunch of great advice, and I really appreciate your idea of using pictures.  My son get very overwhelmed by the concept of speaking and defensing, but I now think that if he can story board the project using photos and art and catch phrases, it will help him navigate his anxiety.  one thing I should have made more clear when I wrote what I wrote last night was that the eagle project coordinator did not make it clear that my son needed to have all the details completed cemented to begin the coaching or planning process.  He came with an idea, and a beneficiary and their approval.  My son is only 14.  Yes, he's young.  Too many people in scouting use age as a discriminating factor.  Why is he doing this now? He should wait until he's more mature....etc.  But I have seen the direct affects of what waiting to the last minute to do your eagle project looks like.  Boys rushing to meet a drop dead deadline and their hearts aren't really in it.  As his mother and a scout leader....I want for him and any boy who is ready to start this process to take it on when they are eager to do so.  The younger a scout is and the more challenges they have (in my son's case ADHD and PTSD), the more cheerleading they need.  Thank you for your wisdom and encouragement.

Age is too often used as a discriminating factor. My son was 14, and yes he needed some coaching from me on being more clear on what he means or intends. All I can say is, I have had to do the same with 17 year olds as well.  While you can’t do the presentation for him, you can certainly role play with him and give him guidance through that which would probably be the most invaluable help he will receive throughout this whole project 😀.  

[SSF]

It's clear that you're very passionate about this, so I'm sorry to be a naysayer, but I have to agree with your son's advisor. I don't think this is a worthwhile project at all.

My advice to your son would be to take a step back from this and consider if he is willing to invest the time and effort into writing up a formal proposal for this, when there is a high degree of rejection.

Perhaps talk with the school about some other ideas that might make for a good project.

Naturally, it's up to your son as to how he wants to proceed, but there is a high degree that this project will either not be approved or will require so much modification that it's no longer the project that he envisioned.