WFA: Required or not?

[mashmaster]

2 hours ago, shortridge said:

Does anyone know how to *find* a BSA-approved WFA course?

Scouting.org refers visitors to three sources - ARC, ESCI, and ACA. (“A participant who successfully completes a 16-hour WFA course based on BSA curriculum will be certified as a WFA provider. This certification is valid for two years through any of the course providers listed below.”)

—> ARC has nothing in my area and the search function won’t let me cast a wider net except searching city by city.

—> ESCI doesn’t appear to offer courses itself but sells materials and certifies instructors. It does not offer an instructor search function that sorts by type of course.

—> ACA only recognizes WFA from ESCI and Sierra Rescue, which operates on the opposite side of the country.

If I take a WFA course through REI, NOLS, WMA, or SOLO, those appear to not count. Anyone else sorted this out?

REI teaches it and it is covered.  I took mine from an ESCI instructor who happened to be a 30+ year paramedic and fire bataliian commander.  He taught it at a council training weekend.  He was amazing and the course was amazing as well.  It worked for Seabase.

[69RoadRunner]

NOLS WFA is accepted by Sea Base. I contacted them ahead of time and they said it was and they were fine with it when we arrived.

Quote

Adult Leader Medical Training It is required that one adult leader in each crew completes Wilderness First Aid (WFA) & CPR from an agency approved by the American Camping Association or hold a higher professional certification such as MD, EMT, RN, LPN or WFR

NOLS says they meet the ACA standards on their web site.

https://www.nols.edu/en/coursefinder/courses/wilderness-first-aid-WFA/

I need to get some more folks in our troop WFA certified.  NOLS will take ages 14 and up, IIRC, but REI NOLS WFA classes are 16 and up.  

[jjlash]

If you go to ecsinstitute.org there is a "Find A Center" link top-center.  You can enter info to search for an "education center" in your area.  The Education Center is the organization which puts on trainings. 

You will have to contact each one - it doesnt show what classes they offer.  In fact, many of them dont offer classes to the public, they are organizations such as schools or camps that provide training internally.  But it is someplace to start.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

16 hours ago, RichardB said:

"They" never had such a rule......Are you confusing this with when the H/W chart on the AHMR applies?    https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/ahmr/medical-formfaqs/  

 

12 hours ago, Treflienne said:

 

But my Girl Scout council currently has such a rule.   Could you be thinking of a different scouting organization's rule?

 

Yes, national had such a rule circa 2010 or thereabouts Unfortunately the link I fond for it is an Error 404 ( Not Found).

I remember it was poorly worded, created a lot of confusion, caused issues with 7 units in my district, and I nearly cancelled CSDC because of it. 7 units are so far out in the boonies, it takes approximately 45 minutes to get to a hospital. Ditto the local Scout camp holding CSDC. I remember a clarification or rewording coming out that medical care = ambulance, not necessarily  a hospital.

And I'm not a member of the GSUSA, so I was not referencing their rules.

[shortridge]

20 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Unfortunately the link I fond for it is an Error 404 ( Not Found).

What’s the URL? We can try to recover it through the Wayback Machine to see the exact language.

 

1 hour ago, jjlash said:

You will have to contact each one - it doesnt show what classes they offer.  In fact, many of them dont offer classes to the public, they are organizations such as schools or camps that provide training internally.

Yep, that’s where I threw up my hands and stopped searching. It’s a useless system. Getting trainers to pay their fees, not getting people trained, is clearly the ESCI goal.

[walk in the woods]

38 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

Yes, national had such a rule circa 2010 or thereabouts Unfortunately the link I fond for it is an Error 404 ( Not Found).

I remember it was poorly worded, created a lot of confusion, caused issues with 7 units in my district, and I nearly cancelled CSDC because of it. 7 units are so far out in the boonies, it takes approximately 45 minutes to get to a hospital. Ditto the local Scout camp holding CSDC. I remember a clarification or rewording coming out that medical care = ambulance, not necessarily  a hospital.

And I'm not a member of the GSUSA, so I was not referencing their rules.

Yep, it was still a rule in 2012.  We had to get WFA for our BWCAW trip.  It was also a question for the scout camp we attended because it was questionable that an ambulance could get there in 30 minutes as the local service was volunteer and not all parts of camp were accessible by road.  

There's an oblique reference to the 30-minute rule in this document as well, http://www.atlantabsa.org/document/caab-solo-wilderness-first-aid/135060.

Edited October 26, 2018 by walk in the woods

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, shortridge said:

What’s the URL? We can try to recover it through the Wayback Machine to see the exact language.

OH BOTHER! I can't believe I forgot about the Wayback Machine. I spent 30-45 minutes looking for the link, found it, and when it didn't work, forgot about it.Going to review my search history when I get home Sunday.

[qwazse]

@glad2badad, welcome to the forums where (unlike Bryan's site) moderators are quick to clear replies. Hope you find us helpful.

[jjlash]

4 hours ago, shortridge said:

Yep, that’s where I threw up my hands and stopped searching. It’s a useless system. Getting trainers to pay their fees, not getting people trained, is clearly the ESCI goal.

I agree it is useless for an end user to locate a trainer.  But that is not really their model.  Their model is to provide materials for the trainers or training organizations and assume that those people will make their services known to the people wanting to be trained.

As for collecting fees - they dont do that either.  The only cost I have to be an ECSI instructor is the book/certification card I purchase for each student.  And those are less expensive than the comparable American Heart Assn materials (Im also AHA instructor) materials.

 

[shortridge]

3 hours ago, jjlash said:

I agree it is useless for an end user to locate a trainer.  But that is not really their model.

Sure, but then why is BSA referring it’s members to them as a training source?

[jjlash]

1 hour ago, shortridge said:

Sure, but then why is BSA referring it’s members to them as a training source?

<shrug> - good question.  

[Jameson76]

On 10/25/2018 at 6:18 PM, gblotter said:

According to this webpage, The Summit is included in the list of BSA High Adventure Bases.

https://www.scouting.org/careers/employment-opportunities/high-adventure-bases/

However, when I examine the website and materials available for The Summit,  ( http://www.summitbsa.org/ )I see no mention at all of WFA as a requirement for units who attend their programs.

To be more specific, is WFA a requirement only for Philmont, Northern Tier, and Florida Sea Base?

I would not think you would need WFA at Summit as you ride the trams between the attractions...though I may be confusing Summit (sorry THE Summit) with the Goofy place in Florida

[RichardB]

@Eagle94-A1 There was not such a rule.  Recommended, sure, required no.    I happen to know the guy that writes those.   Rumor, BS, folklore, well intended volunteers pushing a WFA agenda all could be the source, but not the BSA this time.....

ECSI and the American Red Cross both have agreements with the BSA to facilitate instructor development and capacity locally.    https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/training/

The American Camp Association recognizes several other nationwide providers like SOLO and NOLS who have courses that meet their standards.   Several BSA camps including Philmont Scout Ranch are ACA accredited, which means that they have chosen to follow the ACA standards (which require WFA when away from medical care).

Need a class, check with your Council Training committee.