Wood Badge - Roses and Thorns

[DuctTape]

Barry, thank you for your insightful and experienced post. From reading it, I now understand my "disconnect" so much more clearly. 

[MikeS72]

10 hours ago, JoeBob said:

implies that this old Eagle Scout, Airborne Ranger, Scoutmaster isn't up to standards because I don't have beads... 

101st or 82nd?

[WisconsinMomma]

Oh you guys, I have to finish my WB tickets!  Great discussion. 

[JoeBob]

4 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

101st or 82nd?

Weapons platoon, Alpha Company, 2nd BN, 75th Rangers, Ft. Lewis, WA

You?

[fred johnson]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've seen lots of frustration with Wood Badgers lately.  The key complains are two.  First, brow beating people who have not taken it to take it.  Second, over-emphasizing it as way more important than it really is. 

Over the years, I've taken lots of high performance team building, leadership training and MBA related classes.  When I took Woodbadge, it was good but not enlightening.  In no way way, would I consider someone who took woodbadge as now trained.  IMHO, it has some good training, but it's more about building excitement or rebuilding excitement.  

[mashmaster]

1 hour ago, fred johnson said:

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've seen lots of frustration with Wood Badgers lately.  The key complains are two.  First, brow beating people who have not taken it to take it.  Second, over-emphasizing it as way more important than it really is. 

Over the years, I've taken lots of high performance team building, leadership training and MBA related classes.  When I took Woodbadge, it was good but not enlightening.  In no way way, would I consider someone who took woodbadge as now trained.  IMHO, it has some good training, but it's more about building excitement or rebuilding excitement.  

I had the same feelings as you.  I enjoyed the weekends with fellow scouters with a purpose.  But didn't really learn much since I have done a lot of training at work.  I am taking Sea Badge in December, we will see how that compares.  

Yes I am a sucker....  

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, fred johnson said:

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've seen lots of frustration with Wood Badgers lately.  The key complains are two.  First, brow beating people who have not taken it to take it.  Second, over-emphasizing it as way more important than it really is.   

I was at summer camp and a couple of WB (dare I say) zealots were hitting it pretty heavy that WB was the end all be all.  Told them not doubting it may have some benefit, but in the last 5 years I had been pretty busy as we had doubled the number of scouts attending monthly outings, the troop was exceeding 1,000 nights camping each year, we did 2 summer camps, 1 High adventure trek, did 11 other outdoor activities, had 10 -12 Eagle scouts each year, service projects, etc and really was not sure what WB might do to take us the the next level?  I explained my focus was on the unit and delivering program to the Scouts.

They did not have a great comeback

[WisconsinMomma]

4 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

 the troop was exceeding 1,000 nights camping each year,

 

Wait, there are 365 days in a year???

[WisconsinMomma]

I like, wore my Wood Badge hat at a Cub campout this past weekend and I think it might have been considered too showy!

[HashTagScouts]

4 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Wait, there are 365 days in a year???

Collectively, the scouts in the unit did 1,000+ nights.

[mashmaster]

3 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I like, wore my Wood Badge hat at a Cub campout this past weekend and I think it might have been considered too showy!

Nah, enjoy it.  Just don't tell people that because you went you are better than them.  And remember there are beads and there are beads......  Not a consistent rubric.

[ParkMan]

19 hours ago, fred johnson said:

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've seen lots of frustration with Wood Badgers lately.  The key complains are two.  First, brow beating people who have not taken it to take it.  Second, over-emphasizing it as way more important than it really is. 

Over the years, I've taken lots of high performance team building, leadership training and MBA related classes.  When I took Woodbadge, it was good but not enlightening.  In no way way, would I consider someone who took woodbadge as now trained.  IMHO, it has some good training, but it's more about building excitement or rebuilding excitement.  

This seems to be a pretty good summary of what I'm reading too.  My take here is:

Brow beating, acting superior, etc - this are not good tactics for any of us to employ.  They don't seem to serve Wood Badge well.  Maybe you'll get one or two more people for your course, but in the long run do a lot more harm than good.

Efficacy of the course - Out of this topic, I've realized that it's a mistake for Wood Badge to simply label itself as "leadership" training and most certainly not the "best leadership training ever".  Lots of us take leadership training in other places - especially at work.  I think it sets expectations too high for the course too and then people walk away and say "eh, not that great".  I liked @Eagledad's description above.  Further, regardless of what we call it, there will certainly always be a good segment of our community for whom it's not adding a lot of new value.  That doesn't mean it's not a good course for the BSA to have.  There are lots of Scouters who don't have all these skills.  I know that from my troop's perspective, I see participants making a bigger impact after taking it - that's a good thing.  

 

[MattR]

I took WB. It was neither great nor a complete waste. More like a disappointment after all the hype. In hindsight I'd say WB is about how to implement a vision. If you know where you want to be then WB provides tools to get there. That's fine but it's not really specific to scouting. Plenty of people have said they've seen this material elsewhere.

The two weekend training I'd rather see is the vision of running a pack, troop, or crew, and how to solve the typical problems you run into.

If the trainers were seeing how their training was helping units then they'd be much less likely to see WB as the goal. Training should never be a goal, the goal should be people that successfully use the training. If WB was much better than anything else then there would be feedback on how units were doing better.

JTE is supposed to be that feedback. Originally the metrics used in JTE were going to get harder as units got better. I haven't really seen that so I assume that units are not generally getting better. The bottom line is good units are figuring it out on their own.

[Jameson76]

18 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Wait, there are 365 days in a year???

Troop total: 13 outings per year, 40.3 average scouts, 2.3 nights average per outing = (roughly) 1,205 nights of camping last year

[qwazse]

I wear my WB neckerchief, mainly because it's the only one that fits well. But, it has made a couple scouters uneasy until they realize that I'm all in for the boys.