Wood Badge - Roses and Thorns

[Sentinel947]

10 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

@Sentinel947, thanks again for your insights.   I appreciate you taking the time to share them with us.  

I wish that WB communities throughout the BSA would follow your example.  Alas, many do not, and actively encourage the behaviors you are trying to modify.

 

I won't take that much credit. I'm following the leadership of folks in my council. I'm trying to learn for when I get tapped to take on Scoutmaster at NYLT or higher level positions at Wood Badge. I've been turning down requests to volunteer at the district, but with my time in the troop starting to reach it's natural conclusion, I may pick up some district volunteering as a chance to keep involved while I'm working my MBA. So while I have good role models in those programs to learn from, people on this forum who have very different experience are important to hear from and learn from as well. This forum is such a wonderful opportunity to share those experiences. 

Scouting isn't a unique environment in regards to forming clicks or good ole boy (or gal) clubs. I saw it in college with fraternities and sororities. I've seen it with politics and religion. I've seen it in the workplace with gender or department. All this stuff creates a breakdown of trust between the in-group and the out-group, and that breakdown leads to contempt of those who are being treated as lesser. In Scouting if we're being treated as lesser while volunteering our time and talent, contempt builds pretty quickly. 

It's a natural human behavior to build sub cultures, to build in groups, special classes of peoples. In some organizations that might even be desirable, but in the Scouting, I think we can all agree it most certainly is not. I think the Scout Oath, Law, and Servant Leadership concepts are an obvious guidepost for us to measure our behavior. 

In NYLT (again I'm sure there was something similar in Wood Badge, I'm just not as familiar with the syllabus) there is a presentation about "Making Ethical decisions." It encourages the use of the Scout Oath and Law as a framework for making decisions and evaluating behavior. Is high pressure tactics, being dismissive of others without beads, making sexual innuendo around other scouters, teasing folks with inside jokes, public humiliation, and taking the spotlight away from other events to focus on themselves living the Scout Oath and Law? Most of us would say it's not. The problem with this approach is it requires either one of two things, self awareness, or somebody to buck the group think and call out inappropriate behavior. Given my (admittedly short) life experience I'm not holding my breath that folks will do either of those things because of the social costs. So it's important to build the right culture from the beginning. 

I remember one of my ASM's lectures from when I was a youth. I'd screwed up, put myself and others in danger. He told me "Having memorized and repeating the Scout Oath and Law each week is one thing, but understanding it and living it is the more important thing."  He also gave me the typical lecture that "I was an older scout (I was 14 or so) and that other scouts in the troop were always watching me, and that they looked up to me and whether I believe him or not. " He was typically a pretty friendly easy going guy, so that particular adult correction stuck with me because of his sincerity and that fact he was expecting me to act like a leader and role model, not a dumb kid. This comes back to my earlier comment about being ambassadors for Scouting. One of my favorite compliments I ever receive is when a co-worker or acquaintance finds out I'm an Eagle Scout and goes "Yea, that's not a surprise." Some of it is probably because I'm a dork, I camp a lot, but also because (at least I think) I conduct myself with respect to others and integrity. 

My final thought (see @desertrat77 I told you I had a lot of long rambling thoughts on this subject!) is that sometimes we have to run into the metaphorical burning building. I encourage a lot of the type 1 folks to seriously reconsider taking Wood Badge. The course needs Scouters of your caliber and experience. Potentially in the future, it gives you the opportunity to help lead your council's WB or NYLT program to a better place if they're in sore shape now. If all the good people run away from Wood Badge, then only the self important good ole boys will remain. Easier said than done for me, because my council doesn't have that uphill slog to fight. But something for folks to consider. Like I said earlier, the council pros who oversee those courses in your council are responsible for the volunteers, their conduct, the outcome of the course and the culture that is being built there. 

Some folks on the forums here are probably old enough when the sex abuse cases for the BSA started getting press in the news and probably had a question asked of them. "How can you be part of an organization like that?"  Why'd you stay? Because Scouting is important and worth fighting for. In my opinion a training like Wood Badge, that can orient newer leaders and refresh more experienced leaders is something worth fighting for.

I think for once I'm out of two cents to give on a topic. @desertrat77 or @RememberSchiff maybe these last few pages regarding Wood Badge could be spun off as a new thread to the Training sub forum? I think we've(mostly me?) have strayed really off the original topic! 

[RememberSchiff]

IMHO, every course should have stated purposes,  a targeted audience,  published outline and responses  to student and unit feedback.

My $0.02

 

 

 

 

 

 

[desertrat77]

20 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One thing I'm trying to think about, when did the outrageous promotions and beading ceremonies start? While the attitudes were around pre- WB21C, i don't remember the beading ceremonies, taking over of campfires, etc until after WB21C came out.

Eagle, I think you are correct.  I recall beading ceremonies from the past, my first being the fall of '75.  Pretty dignified affair.  Part of a normal troop court of honor.  My SM was presented his beads by a council scouter.  It took about five minutes.  A brief description of the WB program, a few personalized comments towards my SM, neckerchief, beads, certificate, applause, thank you, next on the agenda.  No critter songs, cups or songbooks hanging from belts, kudu horn blowing, etc.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by desertrat77

[ParkMan]

I've thought a lot about the recruiting aspect of Wood Badge.  As a Troop CC, I have seen a lot of benefit in having leaders attend, and so try to encourage it.  Sorry to make this all so long - but over zealous recruiting was described as a major complaint, so I thought I'd start by sharing what I tend to do.

Why I recruit

One of the biggest benefits to our troop is the ticket process.  For us, it has encouraged leaders to get more focused in their involvement with the troop.  I have seen it transform a volunteer who is present, but waiting for guidance into someone with more confidence who will take on some ownership, initiative, and drive to accomplish their goals.  This has been very good for us and has helped us to strengthen as an adult leadership team.  However, don't get me wrong - we have people who show up and just do that naturally.  It's just that our volunteers who take it tend to come back and have a bigger impact in the troop after taking the course.

How I explain the course:

So, when I encourage attendance, I usually take a few minutes to explain the following:

1) Give a fair description of the course

I explain that the first part is a well done course that consists of two, three day weekends.  The materials covers leadership skills in a Scouting context.  It's intent is not to train on Scout or outdoor skills.   You will however learn a lot about Scouting the full Scouting program - Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Venturing.  You will also learn a lot about the patrol method and how a Scout led troop operates.

I tell them that one of my favorite parts of the course is the people.  The staff are all experienced, energetic Scouters.  Many of the staff have taught the course multiple times.  The participants are Scouters from all over the council.  They run the range or program, experience, and rolls.  You'll have den leaders, Cubmaster, Scoutmasters, Committee Members, and more.  While on the course, you'll learn from all these people and significantly grow the number of Scouters you can call and ask for help and guidance.

In summing up, I share that the whole process is very well organized and prepared.  I share a little about the staff selection and development process.  I let them know that by the time they get there, the staff has put in three weekends getting ready for the course.  I share that many participants rave about the experience - though I caution that you have to go in willing to embrace it.

2) I explain the ticket process

I tell them that a really big part of the experience is the ticket.  I share the idea that the course staff work with them to set goals for their position in Scouting.  The staff will then help them translate those goals into a series of meaningful, but challenging projects designed to help them accomplish those goals.  After the completion of the course, they'll spend time completing those projects.  I do tell them that the projects are not intended to be busy work.  They are meaningful things they they are things you'd probably do otherwise - it's just that Wood Badge helps put some structure around them to encourage you to complete them in a timely way.

 

3) I will point to others that have taken it

We generally have 3-4 people in our ranks that have taken Wood Badge.  So, I point out those people.  

One on one conversations

I will usually approach a few people individually.  The enthusiastic ASM or committee member who is off to a good start, but I think could use a boost.  The experience Scouter that I think would enjoy the experience as well as the interaction and enthusiasm of the participants and staff.  I don't pressure - but I encourage.  Something like "Hey Bob - you're doing a great job in the troop.  I think Wood Badge would be something you'd get a lot out of.  I'd encourage you to attend."

 

 

[ParkMan]

8 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

Eagle, I think you are correct.  I recall beading ceremonies from the past, my first being the fall of '75.  Pretty dignified affair.  Part of a normal troop court of honor.  My SM was presented his beads by a council scouter.  It took about five minutes.  A brief description of the WB program, a few personalized comments towards my SM, neckerchief, beads, certificate, applause, thank you, next on the agenda.  No critter songs, cups or songbooks hanging from belts, kudu horn blowing, etc.

 

Around here, the ceremonies typically follow a pretty typical flow.

A small group of Wood Badge staff attends the event.  It includes the Scoutmaster and usually the Troop Guide, ticket counselor, and a couple of other folks who were able to attend.  It kinda depends on the event and availability of the staff.

1. Event emcee introduces the course director.
2. Course director does a brief intro and explains what Wood Badge is.  The other staff introduce themselves.
3. The other staff who are there present the Wood Badge items: the neckerchief, woggle, & course certificate.  They’ll usually say a few words about their significance and history.
4. Course director presents the beads. 
5. Course director may add a few extra remarks and may present a few extra items.  Usually it will be something about person's ticket - particularly if it had an impact on the group at the beading.
6. The participant says a few words.

Ceremony is done.  It probably takes about 10 minutes.  If it's an event with Scouts, they generally try to move along quickly.  If it's done in front of a Wood Badge oriented group, they'll usually go longer - maybe tell some stories or something like that.  

Interestingly enough, I've seen a few done in front of Cub Scout packs where they'll go a little longer and explain things a little more for the cubs benefit - they seem to enjoy that from what I've seen.  Most Cub Scout packs might see a beading every 3-4 ears, so it's not a terribly common occurrence.  I get the sense that it's also kinda neat that the course director is often some really experienced Scouter who is comfortable in front of a group of Scouts.

Is 10 minutes too long?  Not sure.  I see the value of some ceremony here and I kinda like that they explain things like the neckerchief, woggle, and beads.

[desertrat77]

6 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Around here, the ceremonies typically follow a pretty typical flow.

A small group of Wood Badge staff attends the event.  It includes the Scoutmaster and usually the Troop Guide, ticket counselor, and a couple of other folks who were able to attend.  It kinda depends on the event and availability of the staff.

1. Event emcee introduces the course director.
2. Course director does a brief intro and explains what Wood Badge is.  The other staff introduce themselves.
3. The other staff who are there present the Wood Badge items: the neckerchief, woggle, & course certificate.  They’ll usually say a few words about their significance and history.
4. Course director presents the beads. 
5. Course director may add a few extra remarks and may present a few extra items.  Usually it will be something about person's ticket - particularly if it had an impact on the group at the beading.
6. The participant says a few words.

Ceremony is done.  It probably takes about 10 minutes.  If it's an event with Scouts, they generally try to move along quickly.  If it's done in front of a Wood Badge oriented group, they'll usually go longer - maybe tell some stories or something like that.  

Interestingly enough, I've seen a few done in front of Cub Scout packs where they'll go a little longer and explain things a little more for the cubs benefit - they seem to enjoy that from what I've seen.  Most Cub Scout packs might see a beading every 3-4 ears, so it's not a terribly common occurrence.  I get the sense that it's also kinda neat that the course director is often some really experienced Scouter who is comfortable in front of a group of Scouts.

Is 10 minutes too long?  Not sure.  I see the value of some ceremony here and I kinda like that they explain things like the neckerchief, woggle, and beads.

Parkman, 10 minutes is definitely reasonable.  As you mentioned, it depends on the event, and the audience's reception.   As you know, short attention spans abound these days.  But if they are into it, and tracking with you, more power to all concerned.

 

[cocomax]

23 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Around here, the ceremonies typically follow a pretty typical flow.

A small group of Wood Badge staff attends the event.  It includes the Scoutmaster and usually the Troop Guide, ticket counselor, and a couple of other folks who were able to attend.  It kinda depends on the event and availability of the staff.

1. Event emcee introduces the course director.
2. Course director does a brief intro and explains what Wood Badge is.  The other staff introduce themselves.
3. The other staff who are there present the Wood Badge items: the neckerchief, woggle, & course certificate.  They’ll usually say a few words about their significance and history.
4. Course director presents the beads. 
5. Course director may add a few extra remarks and may present a few extra items.  Usually it will be something about person's ticket - particularly if it had an impact on the group at the beading.
6. The participant says a few words.

Ceremony is done.  It probably takes about 10 minutes.  If it's an event with Scouts, they generally try to move along quickly.  If it's done in front of a Wood Badge oriented group, they'll usually go longer - maybe tell some stories or something like that.  

Interestingly enough, I've seen a few done in front of Cub Scout packs where they'll go a little longer and explain things a little more for the cubs benefit - they seem to enjoy that from what I've seen.  Most Cub Scout packs might see a beading every 3-4 ears, so it's not a terribly common occurrence.  I get the sense that it's also kinda neat that the course director is often some really experienced Scouter who is comfortable in front of a group of Scouts.

Is 10 minutes too long?  Not sure.  I see the value of some ceremony here and I kinda like that they explain things like the neckerchief, woggle, and beads.

Wow!

I wish my district had your Wood Badge Folks,  your beading ceremonies sound very nice. 

 

[JoeBob]

On 10/20/2018 at 1:24 PM, Sentinel947 said:

Not "Walking the Walk"

@Sentinel947, I was all ready for you to hit on one of my personal hot buttons: bad personal example.

When one of these rotund individuals (from a folding chair pulled out of their camping van)

implies that this old Eagle Scout, Airborne Ranger, Scoutmaster isn't up to standards because I don't have beads...  

I need ViseGrip pliers to hold my tongue. 

[Sentinel947]

1 hour ago, JoeBob said:

@Sentinel947, I was all ready for you to hit on one of my personal hot buttons: bad personal example.

When one of these rotund individuals (from a folding chair pulled out of their camping van)

 

implies that this old Eagle Scout, Airborne Ranger, Scoutmaster isn't up to standards because I don't have beads...  

I need ViseGrip pliers to hold my tongue. 

I'm glad I met your expectations.

I've got a nasty tongue. It's a personal character flaw of mine. I'm not sure I'd have your discipline. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Sentinel947

[Eagledad]

This has turned into a very interesting discussion. As a 3 beader and a staffer of both the old course and newer 21C course, I have a pretty good grasp of its pro and cons. I was also the Council Junior Leadership Training Chairman when NYLT replaced JLTC.

The WB pinnacle training reputation came from the old course that was created to teach advanced teaching styles to experienced troop leaders, mostly Scoutmasters. Not only were participants expected to have troop leadership experience, they were also personally invited by their reputation. Not just any Scoutmaster was invited. That further influenced its superior reputation and the source of the elitistism.

The old course was not designed to teach scout skills. The scout skills teaching sessions where only used to demonstrate new teaching styles. 

Now jump to the new 21C WB introduced in 2000. This course was designed for a completely different goal of teaching adults how to develop a functional unit leadership team. The course structure is misleading because the patrol/troop setting implies a troop leadership training program. However, the course is as beneficial for cub leader and venture leader as it is the troop leaders because the syllabus doesn’t get into unit specific training. 

WB is an advanced training course, but only slightly because adults only require enough experience to know their responsibilities of their positions. And that is only so they can create their Ticket Items. Personally I feel the new WB course applies best for new scouters, especially cub leaders. Troop and venturing leaders don’t have any advantage over cub leaders in the course today, so team dynamics development might as well start team as early as possible. 

In the early hey days of the old WB course, it was just an advanced course for troop leaders, mostly SMs. And it was typically only one a year course of four patrols. They added a couple more patrols if needed, but with typically only one adult attending from each troop a year, the elitism status naturally developed. Not because it was a pinnacle course, but because the graduates and staff really were the best trained and most experienced leaders in the BSA. Some folks naturally let that go to their heads.

I have to laugh a little, at least a 3rd of our WB Course directors today are women. And many of them didnt have a troop experience. They are more of the Good o boys club than males in most units. 

Personally I think the present course has a good curriculum for today’s new scouters. The problem I see with it is the Patrol Method legacy. Most staffers don’t understand the courses objective of teaching team coordination and working toward mission goals. If the staffers don’t get it, the participants certainly won’t. 

I personally believe the heart of the course is the Ticket Items. The course sylibus is design to get the participants prepared for writing and working their tickets. But most staffs don’t see it that way. The course is two weekends long (1 too many), but working the tickets could takes several months, or even years.

One issue I have with the course (also very common with NYLT) is the units aren’t encouraged to prepare their scouter for the course. So not only is the scouter on their own in many units, their effort isn’t appreciated when they get back from training. I changed that issue with the NYLT courses by requiring the SM to review and develop a plan to help their participant succeed. I think the unit leaders should be just as engaged for their WB participants.

I’m glad to see ParkMan personally recruiting for his unit. One step more would be preparing the scouter for how their skills will be used when they come back, and provide a list of Ticket Items to help the scouter grow with the program. 

My only comment about the Beading Ceremonies is, as an adult leader of a youth programs and activities, I didn’t allow adult beading ceremonies in the boys program at Council, district, or unit level. I can’t think of anything more boring to force Scouts to endure. 

Sorry this is so long.

Barry

 

[desertrat77]

Over the years, I've had several WBers tell me, with a straight face:

- That WB is more intellectually challenging than the classes I took for my master's degree (in organizational management)

- The leadership/management lessons from the professional military education courses I took (nine total) when I was on active duty are, in fact, inferior to what WB teaches

- Same things they told @JoeBob:  no beads means that I'm not up to snuff, lazy, I don't care about the welfare of the scouts, I'm a half-stepper, too chicken to take the course, not capable enough to grasp the Deeper Meaning, a poor example of a scouter, etc.

I kid you not.  When it happens, I just smile and don't say a word.  And try not to laugh.

Yes, these examples are at the extreme end of the WB sales spectrum.  But they still happen.

So...where do I sign up...I'd love to spend six days with these folks!

PS.  I know that I don't know everything. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by desertrat77

[desertrat77]

@Eagledad, I found your post very interesting, thanks.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by desertrat77

[ParkMan]

@desertrat77 As a supporter of the program, I'm embarassed to read that there are those that make those claims.  On their best day they are ridiculous exagerations.  Trying to say that Wood Badge training is superior to other management or leadership type training is the wrong approach.  Rather then saying it's better than someone else's course, we'd be better served by describing it as it is.  Making grandiose claims is really not needed.  There's more than enough good reasons for someone to attend without making those claims.

Anyone who tells you that you're lazy, not up to snuff, or don't care is simply a bad ambassador for Wood Badge.  I'd rather have 100 empty courses than fill one through guilty and criticism.  Frankly if I was in a position to do so, I'd cancel their course.

[desertrat77]

34 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

@desertrat77 As a supporter of the program, I'm embarassed to read that there are those that make those claims.  On their best day they are ridiculous exagerations.  Trying to say that Wood Badge training is superior to other management or leadership type training is the wrong approach.  Rather then saying it's better than someone else's course, we'd be better served by describing it as it is.  Making grandiose claims is really not needed.  There's more than enough good reasons for someone to attend without making those claims.

Anyone who tells you that you're lazy, not up to snuff, or don't care is simply a bad ambassador for Wood Badge.  I'd rather have 100 empty courses than fill one through guilty and criticism.  Frankly if I was in a position to do so, I'd cancel their course.

Parkman, the kicker is that the comments weren't always delivered by a one-off, grade D WBer.  That I can accept any day of the week as he/she may not speak for the rest of the community.  More often than not, these comments were made by folks that were pretty high in the WB food chain, folks with more than two beads.

So I play the cards I'm dealt, and go hiking and camping instead.

Edited October 22, 2018 by desertrat77

[ParkMan]

56 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

Parkman, the kicker is that the comments weren't always delivered by a one-off, grade D WBer.  That I can accept any day of the week as he/she may not speak for the rest of the community.  More often than not, these comments were made by folks that were pretty high in the WB food chain, folks with more than two beads.

So I play the cards I'm dealt, and go hiking and camping instead.

Understood @desertrat77.

I'm reminded of a interesting Wood Badge fact I learned along the way.  The National Wood Badge director in any country is entitled to wear five beads.  As I understand it, in the United States the last person to wear five beads was Green Bar Bill.  Every person since him who has been entitled to be a five beader has refused the recognition.  I always thought that showed a lot of respect and class.

Your experience, unfortunately like others, clearly shows that not everyone who has completed Wood Badge understands class.  You'd like to think the three and four beaders would get it - but I've sadly learned too well this weekend that not all do.

Here's hoping that at least some of those folks will start getting the message that they need to think a lot harder about their own actions.