Qualities of an Eagle

[WisconsinMomma]

21 hours ago, qwazse said:

Beauty vanishes, personalities change, desire waxes and wanes, wits dull, but  ...

• If your spouse leans into the plow and secures wealth for your family and the poor in your community, you may hike and camp more and work double shifts less.
• If your spouse puts out a good meal, you may be presumed fed ... and freer to welcome the stranger to your table.

So, yes, I am having a little fun, but provoking thought at the same time.

 

This sounds a little bit like how wives are chosen and treated in the backwoods of less developed countries -- a woman is chosen as a worker and treated like a slave / donkey, and the man goes and finds beauty and love and spreads his seed around with mistresses.  Absolutely ridiculous. 

[Oldscout448]

1 hour ago, WisconsinMomma said:

This sounds a little bit like how wives are chosen and treated in the backwoods of less developed countries -- a woman is chosen as a worker and treated like a slave / donkey, and the man goes and finds beauty and love and spreads his seed around with mistresses.  Absolutely ridiculous. 

It does?  Where?

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

This sounds a little bit like how wives are chosen and treated in the backwoods of less developed countries -- a woman is chosen as a worker and treated like a slave / donkey, and the man goes and finds beauty and love and spreads his seed around with mistresses.  Absolutely ridiculous. 

I do not know from any personal experience, but my understanding of mistresses and house-boys are that they are neither rich nor good cooks.

Speaking of "less developed countries" my father-in-law first noticed my mother-in-law while they were tending crops in the hinterlands of western PA. He saw her work-ethic and thought, "She'll do."

Demean the "help-mate" criteria all you want, but to this day, I am reaping the benefits of that union.

[mds3d]

9 hours ago, Pale Horse said:

The answer varies across the scale.  You have some units where the CO's word is law, and you have others where the CO is either virtually non-existent or gives SM complete reign in delivering program as he/she sees fit.

Our case is the latter.  Our CO is a CO in paperwork only.

I think that there are definitely correct/appropriate options along this scale along with inappropriate ones.  I am still really not sure where the CO would be exerting their influence when it comes to advancement.  Other things, sure... If a CO wants the troop to always stop some where for Mass on Sunday, or require trips avoid holy days that is reasonable.  If a CO wants the troop to refuse to advance scouts that they deem irreverent or unclean simply because they don't meet some non-BSA specified standard, then that might be a step too far. 

[Pale Horse]

1 hour ago, mds3d said:

I am still really not sure where the CO would be exerting their influence when it comes to advancement.  

By firing/hiring an SM that agrees with their approach to advancement.

[WisconsinMomma]

21 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

It does?  Where?

Rural India and the Middle East are extremely sexist.  In addition to this dowry burning, in parts of rural India women are expected to burn themselves to death, and celebrated for it, when their husbands die.   All of this is treating women as property

https://www.smh.com.au/world/india-burning-brides-and-ancient-practice-is-on-the-rise-20150115-12r4j1.html

https://scroll.in/article/874185/decades-after-india-outlawed-sati-a-temple-to-a-victim-in-bundelkhand-draws-scores-of-devotees

20 hours ago, qwazse said:

I do not know from any personal experience, but my understanding of mistresses and house-boys are that they are neither rich nor good cooks.

Speaking of "less developed countries" my father-in-law first noticed my mother-in-law while they were tending crops in the hinterlands of western PA. He saw her work-ethic and thought, "She'll do."

Demean the "help-mate" criteria all you want, but to this day, I am reaping the benefits of that union.

I think it serves everyone better to make sure the boys and girls can manage their own cooking and chores.   I think demeaning the criteria is better than demeaning women. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[WisconsinMomma]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:55 AM, qwazse said:

It's like I have a long-lost brother!

When ever we visited home Mrs. Q helped prepare meals, Dad would come up to her and make sure she knew which cupboard had the garlic!

 

I do share these criteria to scouts of both sexes tongue-in-cheek, but also to help them think about core values.

Are they outdated and sexist? What, pray tell, should be a post-modern nomad's criteria for mate selection? Beauty? Personality? Desire? Wits?

Beauty vanishes, personalities change, desire waxes and wanes, wits dull, but  ...

• If your spouse leans into the plow and secures wealth for your family and the poor in your community, you may hike and camp more and work double shifts less.
• If your spouse puts out a good meal, you may be presumed fed ... and freer to welcome the stranger to your table.

So, yes, I am having a little fun, but provoking thought at the same time.

2

It might be a much more valuable and Scout-like lesson to talk to boys about what they should give in a relationship, more than what they can get.  What makes a relationship a win-win for a husband and wife, and there's a lot more to it than he's the paycheck and she's the maid. If I heard that you were teaching my boys about your vision of spouse selection we'd be having a conversation where I'd be asking you to stick to the Scout Handbook.  You are welcome to have that conversation with your own children all day long but it's not your scope of practice to train mine in that subject matter. I have some suggestions for my children about choosing a mate, but they are for my family only.

Edited October 18, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[ianwilkins]

I think sharing a similar sense of humour is important in a relationship. In which case, luckily, it seems qwazse and WinsconsinMomma are not in a relationship, as far as we can tell.

[WisconsinMomma]

Here's the thing, it's not funny.  My husband had a Chemistry professor who told him something like, "the taller they are, the more fun they are to ride."  Is that a joke?  Is it funny?  Is it Chemistry?  This is the kind of garbage that goes around and it's inappropriate. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[Eagledad]

2 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

I think sharing a similar sense of humour is important in a relationship. In which case, luckily, it seems qwazse and WinsconsinMomma are not in a relationship, as far as we can tell.

Welcome to family Scouting.

Barry

[WisconsinMomma]

1 minute ago, Eagledad said:

Welcome to family Scouting.

Barry

It's not the good old boy club anymore!  And I"ve been in Scouting for 5 years, thank you very much. 

[Eagledad]

Just now, WisconsinMomma said:

It's not the good old boy club anymore!  And I"ve been in Scouting for 5 years, thank you very much. 

You win, I give up. It's not the boys club anymore, it belongs to mom, dad and little sister. Patrol method is dead, outdoor social engineering is in. 

I know how long you have been in scouting WM because you have taken several of my posts out of context over the years. 

We need to start a discussion on new uniform styles. National needs to change the uniform away from Boy Scouts of America uniform to define a clear difference between the two programs. 

Barry

[WisconsinMomma]

I didn't say boys, I said good old boys, and you know what that means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_ol'_boy

And I will add that any access to minors comes only with the permission of mom and dad, they are not the enemy.  Scouting does belong to mom and dad and siblings, and we all have our roles and opportunities within the organization. 

I have three children in Scouting and I absolutely have influence in our troop. I have more influence than older Scouters whose children grew up and left decades ago, because it is my family and my kids. Scouting exists today because of our membership. No kids, no program.   I have a lot of influence as a current parent and Cub leader because I'm connected to Cubs, I can help Troops recruit cubs, I make introductions between our Arrow of Light den leader and Scoutmasters, I tell young boys (and a couple girls) that when they get older, maybe they'll be a Boy Scout, like that's the best thing ever.  I help create opportunities for Troops to work with our Cubs, which helps give boys volunteer hours and lets young scouts see the upper level program. I have relationships with a lot of families with children because my family has children.  Our Lions now, if we are doing things well, will be new Scouts six years from now.  So I am thinking 10 years ahead, not 20 years behind.  All of this is very valuable to  Scouting.   Now, is that bad?  Because the organization cannot run on old Scouters alone.  We have to work together and if you don't like working with families, you'll have no one to work with. 

Here's an article about sexism in the middle east:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/may/02/majority-of-men-in-middle-east-north-africa-survey-believe-a-womans-place-is-in-the-home

 

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[packsaddle]

1 hour ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Here's the thing, it's not funny.  My husband had a Chemistry professor who told him something like, "the taller they are, the more fun they are to ride."  Is that a joke?  Is it funny?  Is it Chemistry?  This is the kind of garbage that goes around and it's inappropriate. 

And today, that guy would be in clear violation of Title IX, and if some administrator had been looking for a reason to replace him he'd be out on his ear. I promise my students a safe learning environment. I also inform them that I do NOT promise them a 'comfortable' one. 

[FireStone]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

You win, I give up. It's not the boys club anymore, it belongs to mom, dad and little sister. Patrol method is dead, outdoor social engineering is in.

If the Patrol Method is dead in any unit, it was dying long before Family Scouting got here. Units I see today still effectively using the Patrol Method are doing so because they fostered a PM culture over many years and continue to do so. Units that stop using PM likely had other barriers to continuing on with it long ago.

I don't know they story with your local unit(s), but as a possibly over-generalized comment I think blaming Family Scouting for the woes of any particular unit's shortcomings or failures is a cop-out. Patrol Method has been a struggle to maintain for many units for decades. Units that wanted to keep it going have done so, in spite of the hurdles. Blaming Family Scouting, a programing initiative that is primarily focused on the Cub level, for any failure of the Patrol Method seems misplaced.

Edited October 18, 2018 by FireStone