Boys, Girls, and Cub Scouting

[John-in-KC]

A Note, from a Moderator

i still remember my Mom being my Den Mother. I remember a ton of old magazines we had in our hall closet, to support activities. 

I still remember The Law of the Pack, and later I remember learning the Scout Law.  I remember being told as a Boy Scout the Scout Law was a positive description of who I should be. 

Boys like clubs. Boys like “no girls allowed” clubs. 8 year old boys aren’t always ready to mix with eight year old girls.  Sometimes, a boy will get, shall we say, boisterous in telling that to a girl.

may I submit a good path to deal with this kind of boisterousness is to simply ask the boy to recite the Scout Law, and then ask him if he was being friendly, courteous and kind?  99+ % of the time, he won’t be able to hold eye contact as he says yes. 

We don’t always need the big guns of youth protection. Sometimes, we need to remember Akela is there to show the way. 

YIS, ICS, IFAW,

John

Edited October 8, 2018 by John-in-KC

[Treflienne]

13 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

may I submit a good path to deal with this kind of boisterousness is to simply ask the boy to recite the Scout Law, and then ask him if he was being friendly, courteous and kind?  99+ % of the time, he won’t be able to hold eye contact as he says yes. 

I would do exactly this with my Brownie and Junior girl scouts.  (Same age as cubs.)   I'd pull the girl aside for a quiet conversation. I'd have the girl start reciting the scout law and then I'd stop her once she got to a relevant point, and ask her whether what she had been doing was living up to the scout law.   (We never got past "honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring" before finding something relevant.)  Ususally the response was a realization of why what she had been doing was wrong, a fervant determination to do better,  and improved behaviour.  (At least until the next time she forgot and did something thoughtless.) 

Also: no need for a troop "Behaviour Contract".   We have the scout law.

[Eagledad]

I don’t know John, I think times have changed. Parents today don’t seem to trust other adults holding their kids accountable, just ask my high school teacher son. It goes both ways , teachers don’t trust parents, so they don’t contact parents with their sons and daughters personal struggles. Our kids are caught in the middle watching their role models and mentors looking for a safe space. We have created a hostile culture toward our youth.

Barry

[Treflienne]

10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

don’t know John, I think times have changed. Parents today don’t seem to trust other adults holding their kids accountable, just ask my high school teacher son.

Scouts has the advantage over public schools, in that it is an activity that the family has chosen of their own free will.    In Girl Scouts, at least,  anyone registering has to agree to abide by the girl scout law -- for the girls being registered by their parents, the parent agrees on their behalf.   (Really -- there is a checkbox on the registration website that you have to check off, or you cannot register. )

That is one of the beauties of refering the kid back to the scout law .   The adults' whims are not the standard of behaviour;  the scout law is the standard of behaviour.   And you know that the parent has already agreed to having the kid follow the scout law.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Treflienne
PS. And you don't tell the kid why what they were doing was contrary to the scout law. You get the kid to tell you why what they were doing was contrary to the scout law.

[Eagledad]

But, there is that discussion of adults trying to figure out if an 8 year old Cub Scout is bullying a new Girl Scout cub, and what to do about it. Should they report him to the Council? 

These adults are eventually going to be leaders in a boy run Patrol method troop program. Patrol method is supposed to be safe place where Scouts grow by experiencing the consequences of stepping outside of the Scout Law and Oath. How can a troop be a safe place if adults are debating whether or not to report the scout to Council. Please convince me the future of Patrol Method isn’t hopeless?

Barry

Edited October 8, 2018 by Eagledad

[Treflienne]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

These adults are eventually going to be leaders in a boy run Patrol method troop program. Patrol method is supposed to be safe place where Scouts grow by experiencing the consequences of stepping outside of the Scout Law and Oath. How can a troop be a safe place if adults are debating whether or not to report the scout to Council. Please convince me the future of Patrol Method isn’t hopeless?

I don't understand the connection you are making to the patrol method.  Could you explain a little more please?

[Eagledad]

20 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

I don't understand the connection you are making to the patrol method.  Could you explain a little more please?

Patrol method is where Scouts grow from the practice of making ethical and moral decisions. Growth comes from values learned by applying the the Scout Law and Oath in their decisions and the results of their decisions. That only works if the Scouts are given the independence to fail. How will adults give the Scouts the independence to fail if they aren’t willing to accept failure as a requirement for learning? They can’t even decide if bad behavior should be reported.

Bad behavior is an opportunity, not a dilemma.

Barry

 

[FireStone]

5 hours ago, John-in-KC said:

We don’t always need the big guns of youth protection. Sometimes, we need to remember Akela is there to show the way. 

I wish that were the way it could always be. But the heavy emphasis on the importance of YPT these days makes it seem like there is very little room for us to do anything to correct any kind of behavior without always asking ourselves if we're operating within YPT guidelines. 

The good thing about our current YPT program is that it is structured in a way that makes it hard for us to forget about it. The bad thing about YPT is that it's structured in a way that makes it hard for us to forget about it, even in situations where maybe we didn't really need to think about it in the first place. 

[MattR]

Here's another view of @Eagledad's observation of failure. All of the YPT reporting rules are dependent on what the offender did. I think you also have to look at how the target of that offense took it. Back to the girl being picked on by the cub, if the girl was upset but an adult noticed it soon enough to talk to her and validate her concerns that what the boy said was wrong, then this doesn't need to escalate to involving the council. The girl learns some kids should be ignored. Hopefully the boy learns that he's wrong, or at least that's his last warning. Problems should be opportunities to show scouts how to solve them. I think this is what Eagledad means. As soon as the council is brought in there's not much room for anyone to learn. There won't be scouts shaking hands, apologizing, accepting that apology, and moving on. Rather, everyone learns that any infraction is a huge deal that the scouts can't be trusted to handle.

[Eagledad]

2 minutes ago, MattR said:

I think this is what Eagledad means. As soon as the council is brought in there's not much room for anyone to learn. There won't be scouts shaking hands, apologizing, accepting that apology, and moving on. Rather, everyone learns that any infraction is a huge deal that the scouts can't be trusted to handle.

Yes, that’s exactly what mean. I understand we are talking at the cub level in the one example, but if the adults can’t work with bad behavior at the Cub ages, they don’t have s chance at the troop ages. 

Barry

[Eagle1993]

Building resilience in our scouts is key.  If we step in too much or often we will rob that learning opportunity from our Scouts.

 My son and I recently went to a AOL/Troop activity (he is AOL) and one of the Boy Scouts asked for volunteers to help cook.   My son volunteered and went to work.  Another Boy Scout came to the kitchen later and yelled at my son to get out... he didn’t belong there.   I didn’t know what happened until I saw my son kneeling and crying behind a tent.  I told him to go talk with the SPL or go back to the kitchen to see if they could still use his help.  It took some prodding but eventually I walked him over and he asked the Scouts in the kitchen if he could still help and they said yes.  Small issue, easily worked out by youth.    Hopefully in the future I won’t even need to walk him over.

YPT doesn’t mean a scout won’t have his or her feelings hurt.  Even though the language is vague, I see YPT as a last resort where there is systemic or serious acts that require intervention.  For the most part, adult unit leaders should be able to handle most Cub Scout situations and SPL/PL should handle most Boy Scout situations. 

[John-in-KC]

We as leaders choose which tool to pull out of the toolbox. 

I don’t pull out a 1” stud 3/8” hex socket and a cheater bar for the ratchet when a 1/4” stud 3/8” hex socket and ratchet fills the bill.