I HATE the new YPT rules

[ianwilkins]

41 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

[litany of problems snipped]From my perspective, the mom doesn't understand Scouting, and only wants her son to be an Eagle.

That sounds very, hmm, struggling with a scout-like phrase! That doesn't sound ideal. Good luck with that. We get the same sometimes, the leader you invite along to camp that turns out not to get it, mothering teens that should be being left to get on with it themselves, not teaching, but taking over. It can definitely be...frustrating.

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

On 10/7/2018 at 12:21 PM, Ranman328 said:

It's amazing to make announcements at the beginning of each Troop Meeting and asking for anything for the good of the Troop and me telling the parents "We need volunteers to step up for events" and they all just sit there looking at you with blank looks.

I am brand new at this leadership stuff.  In my view, people need to be "voluntold".    It's just like when you need someone to call 911 - you don't say, "Somebody call 911!"  Instead, you point at a particular person and say, "You call 911!"  Generic pleas for help often go unanswered because everyone assumes that someone else is going to step up.  Put people on the spot.  When you have your parents sitting there go up to a specific parent and ask them, "Will you take the YPT training this week?"  Make them commit or shirk publicly.  Go right down the row.

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:40 AM, DuctTape said:

The term Family Scouting was an extremely poor choice by BSA if it truly means what they stated; a one stop shop for families. Obviously family's and scouters are implementing it as "the entire family is together". That is disappointing. BSA has really lost its edge on how to market effectively.

Strange how so many come from the business world and are terrible at marketing. Or maybe these ceos and business execs don't really understand the product. It wouldn't be the first time, as it happens in business world a heckuva lot. Yet "we" think we need to pay them 300x + the average employee wage. 

I have to admit, when I first heard "Family Scouting" then a "one stop shop for families" is exactly what I had in mind.  Just like Cub Scouts has "family scouting" where everyone, siblings and both parents, can attend activities.  I assumed Boy Scout Family Scouting would be the same thing.

If it's really just "Separate but Equal" then nothing has changed - my daughter may as well keep going to my wife's Girl Scout Troop and we will continue juggling schedules between two different troops and activities for my son and daughter. 

It sounds to me like Boy Scouts is trying to ease into this stuff and they currently have one leg over two different horses.  Ultimately we are going to end up with co-ed Scout troops, and that's that.  Right now it sounds to me like they are trying to thread a needle by having separate troops for boys and girls, and I don't see how this does anything for "Family Scouting" as girls can already go to separate Girl Scout troops.

[walk in the woods]

4 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

I am brand new at this leadership stuff.  In my view, people need to be "voluntold".    It's just like when you need someone to call 911 - you don't say, "Somebody call 911!"  Instead, you point at a particular person and say, "You call 911!"  Generic pleas for help often go unanswered because everyone assumes that someone else is going to step up.  Put people on the spot.  When you have your parents sitting there go up to a specific parent and ask them, "Will you take the YPT training this week?"  Make them commit or shirk publicly.  Go right down the row.

If you did this in my neighborhood, the next meeting would have 0 parents and 0 participants.  I spent a year and a half shielding my pack from a DE who was just like this.  The Pack's survival was in question for the better part of 8 months.

[acco40]

9 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

I am brand new at this leadership stuff.  In my view, people need to be "voluntold".    It's just like when you need someone to call 911 - you don't say, "Somebody call 911!"  Instead, you point at a particular person and say, "You call 911!"  Generic pleas for help often go unanswered because everyone assumes that someone else is going to step up.  Put people on the spot.  When you have your parents sitting there go up to a specific parent and ask them, "Will you take the YPT training this week?"  Make them commit or shirk publicly.  Go right down the row.

No, blanket announcements of "I need a volunteer to . . ." don't work very well.  Conversely, putting people on the spot is not my favorite technique either.  One has to be a little devious but if you know the adults you should have a good idea of who may or may not be a good candidate for the position you are seeking to fill (or task to be accomplished).   It takes some skill but get with that person one-on-one, talk sincerely about the need and how you think that person would be a great asset and nine times out of ten you close the deal - no public shaming required.

Edited October 16, 2018 by acco40

[Tired_Eagle_Feathers]

Pardon my ignorance, what is a "DE"?

Thanks,

[an_old_DC]

7 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

Pardon my ignorance, what is a "DE"?

Thanks,

District Executive. A junior-level paid professional.

[ham_solo]

47 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

Pardon my ignorance, what is a "DE"?

Thanks,

A rare creature that some of us have actually seen.

 

Unlike of course the mysterious Unit Executive which is a mythical creature which has only been rumored to have been seen by some scouters that say they caught rare glimpses of one, but it was always a foggy nite and if you ask me their tales are often a little far fetched.

Edited October 16, 2018 by ham_solo

[Ranman328]

7 hours ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

I am brand new at this leadership stuff.  In my view, people need to be "voluntold".    It's just like when you need someone to call 911 - you don't say, "Somebody call 911!"  Instead, you point at a particular person and say, "You call 911!"  Generic pleas for help often go unanswered because everyone assumes that someone else is going to step up.  Put people on the spot.  When you have your parents sitting there go up to a specific parent and ask them, "Will you take the YPT training this week?"  Make them commit or shirk publicly.  Go right down the row.

Been there, done that.  Get lots of head bobbing and it never gets done.  Gets to the point when parents just drop at the door and go.  They want to have their Scout in a great program but they don't want to have to give up any time or effort to support it.  I call them out in emails, in Troop Meetings, Court of Honor's, you name it.  When enough events get cancelled, maybe then they will step up.  I should not be working more hours in a week at my volunteer job (Scouts) than I do at my paid job. 

[WisconsinMomma]

On 10/16/2018 at 8:38 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Not only do I have problems with the 6 year old being there, but the mother does not really care a fig about the Patrol Method.  Regarding the 6 year old, he is left unsupervised, interferes with the patrol when stuff needs to get done, and when corrected by the PL or APL, yells "NO!" and continues doing stuff until a Scouter corrects him and tells him he needs to get back with his parents.

As mentioned the mom does not get the patrol method, despite being talked to about it multiple times. This is the mom who sees no problem with her son leaving the patrol campsite and hanging out with her and the family. This mom has no problem cooking food that her son will eat, and then allowing him to eat with his family.The mom doesn't see a problem with allowing her 12 year old son to sneak into the family tent on troop camp outs. This is the mom who got her husband and son to leave summer camp and sleep in a hotel one night, only having the husband call AFTER he was at the hotel. They knew reception at the camp is spotty, and it was sheer luck that one of the other adults got the text message stating dad and Scout were at the hotel and would be back in the morning. From my perspective, the mom doesn't understand Scouting, and only wants her son to be an Eagle.

 

She may be an enthusiastic CUB SCOUT leader, be she is problem as a BOY SCOUT, soon to be SCOUTS BSA, Scouter.

What information has the mom been given about the patrol method.  Has she taken BSA boy scout level training?  Has she been coached?  Invite her to join the adults patrol then hang around your adults patrol campfire and start up the relationship.  The 6 y.o. can hang with the adult patrol too. Or, find some other female leaders into your adult patrol so you have better coverage next time.

People don't just know the patrol method.  They need information and coaching.  Send her to Wood Badge!

It's hard to listen to the complaints that a) parents don't do anything, and b) parents do too much!  Parents need to be taught their roles in the Troop too. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[Eagle94-A1]

Just now, WisconsinMomma said:

What information has the mom been given about the patrol method. 

She has been to two information sessions the troop has held, plus three family sessions over the past year do to issues that have arisen. Comments overheard from her and hubby is that they don't care, if son is having a problem, they will take care of it. Husband is a registered MC who has been trained.

3 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

 Has she taken BSA boy scout level training?  Has she been coached?  

Do not know if she took Boy Scout training as she is not registered with the troop. As far as coaching, yes she and her husband have been coached and counseled multiple times by several ASMs as well as by the SM. Twice she has threatened to transfer to a neighboring troop. When we called her threat, she stays, and calms down for a bit, and then resumes.

 

38 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Invite her to join the adults patrol then hang around your adults patrol campfire and start up the relationship. 

She has been invited multiple times to stay with us. She will be with the other adults and then wonders off to her son. Except for the last camp out. her son kept coming to her in the adult area. Also she is very distant and standoffish. 

41 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Or, find some other female leaders into your adult patrol so you have better coverage next time.

People don't just know the patrol method.  They need information and coaching. 

Sadly the only 2 female committee members the troop has no longer camp due to health issues. We have talked, coached and counseled. Myself and another ASM will not longer deal.

[RememberSchiff]

As per @Sentinel947 request, the pages of Wood Badge discussion was split into its own topic here. 

Discussions wandering off topic is what happens when a moderator is distracted by Netflix DareDevil Season 3.  - RS