I HATE the new YPT rules

[Eagle94-A1]

I hate the new YPT rules. In addition to destroying the Patrol Method, no longer considering 18-20 year olds as responsible adults, having a double standard in which 2 females can take a bunch of boys camping but you MUST have a registered female present if 1 girl is present,  the biggest P.I.T.A. is parents do not count towards YPT.

I now have to tell a female Webelos she may not be able to attend a camp out, even if a parent shows up and camps with her, because there may be no female Scouters present.

I.AM. TICKED. OFF! (screaming in rage)

Troop she would be camping with has only one registered female Scouter, and she does not camp any more due to health reasons.

The only possible registered female Scouter, is the former Bear DL who stepped down because she does not want to camp. She knew Webelos entailed camping, and stepped down as a result. Looks like I will be doing some begging in the very near future. Maybe a Dutch oven "Death by Chocolate Cake" will do the trick?

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Eagle94-A1

[Thunderbird]

Any chance of the girl's mom getting signed up as a Unit Scouter Reserve?

[ParkMan]

Agreed - see if her parent can get registered.  Pay for the registration for her.

But, if not and you can't find one - cancel the campout.  A troop camps together.  If you don't have sufficient adults for a troop member to go (even a prospective troop member), you don't go.  It's not her fault, it's the fault of the adults in the troop. 

Welcome to the new normal.

[Saltface]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Agreed - see if her parent can get registered.  Pay for the registration for her.

But, if not and you can't find one - cancel the campout.  A troop camps together.  If you don't have sufficient adults for a troop member to go (even a prospective troop member), you don't go.  It's not her fault, it's the fault of the adults in the troop. 

 Welcome to the new normal.

Please tell me that this is sarcasm. 

[ParkMan]

3 hours ago, Saltface said:

Please tell me that this is sarcasm. 

Yes - the last part (about the new normal) was sarcasm.  It was late here and that completely wasn't obvious.  I agree with @Eagle94-A1 that the BSA should have allowed adults of whatever gender take Scouts of whatever gender camping.  It's ridiculous that in this day and age they added such an old school rule.  They missed a golden opportunity to be a leader here.

 

But, due to the rules we have now, I was serious about canceling.  The quickest way to start making girls feel like less welcome members is to have the boys go on a trip but say the girls cannot because you don't have a female leader.  I do think we have to say - we all go or none of us go. 

Guess I'm just old school here, but part of the troop committee's job is to provide for enough adults for events.  Don't have enough ASMs, they need to find more or at the very least make sure committee membera fill the gap for camping.  The troop committee is generally composed of parents.  So, if your troop has an event requiring a female adult to be present and there is not one, the Troop Committee needs to fix that.  If they don't, the boys simply don't have enough adults for the trip and it doesn't happen.  

I do realize this is unfair to the existing boy members- but I also think it sends a strong message about the importance of everyone in the group.  As a big part of Scouting is about leadership development and also about adult association, I believe that how we handle this and the message it sends to the Scouts is important.

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by ParkMan
Extended another line

[Eagle94-A1]

Cancelling is not an option. A) it is camporee, and B)  cancelling a camp out for lack of female Scouters is one the concerns of the Scouts and why the CO is forming a separate female troop. If the troop was to cancel 50+% will leave. That has already been stated when we did a poll of the Scouts. 

Troop traditionally invites all the Webelos, and since she is the only female Webelos in the pack, and I believe the entire district, So they invited her as a courtesy as well as an incentive to get the female troop going.

[malraux]

If you are starting a female troop, shouldn't you have a few female leaders in the pipeline for said troop?

That said, I agree with the idea of getting a parent signed on as unit leader reserve.

[MikeS72]

If her pack does not have a registered female leader willing to camp, you could try contacting one of the other packs in your area to see if they have someone who would be willing to step up so this young lady does not get left out in the cold.

[qwazse]

Scramble like heck. Call your caouncil venturing committee. Let your DE know. Community college APO, church youth leaders. And ... GS/USA commissioners.

You might get your leader, you might not. But you'll feel better trying.

[Eagle94-A1]

CO is working on the female troop, but is still looking for female Scouters. Two of the current Scouters are the ones who are pushing it since the troop will not be "linked," but they are male. As for her mom registering, I do not know the family situation.She just joined Monday night, and dad was the one who brought her.

As for other packs, as far as I know she is the only female Webelos in the district. My son's pack has no female Webelos, and the other pack accepting girls does not have female Webelos. The rest of the packs are not accepting girls at this time.

[RichardB]

You get to chose your response.   Seems a little over the top on a forum.    Perhaps look at the fact you have a clear example where a young lady is being put into a situation where she is the lone female and that is a risk that has been identified and deemed unacceptable.    The situation that shouldn't happen with Scouting's Barriers to Abuse.   

The link to the Barriers to Abuse in case you missed it.....https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a

A few FAQ's:  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/yp-faqs/ 

What Family Scouting is supposed to be:  https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/  

 

 

 

[scotteg83]

So this is a Webelos camping with the Troop? 

Not that we had the issue yet, but my daughter is a Webelos, and I am waiting for that issue to arrive (Wife doesn't camp, and shes the den leader, I am just the assistant).

However, in our Troop past, we have always required the Webelos Parents to attend the campout.  I know its not true YPT coverage, but I would rather have the Girl Camp with her Mom (leader or not). If the Mom will not camp, then there's your out. 

Family Camping is weird.  Its my understanding that I can camp with my daughter, and share a tent, but only if there is a Female Registered leader on site. 

[ParkMan]

I'd definitely get the pack leadership & COR & perhaps church leadership involved here.  I agree to with @qwaze - start running through the list of other Scouting groups that might be able to help. You are trying to do the right thing here by making it possible for her to participate as an equal member.

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Cancelling is not an option. A) it is camporee, and B)  cancelling a camp out for lack of female Scouters is one the concerns of the Scouts and why the CO is forming a separate female troop. If the troop was to cancel 50+% will leave. That has already been stated when we did a poll of the Scouts. 

I'm not going to continue to beat the drum of cancel.  But, some food for thought from my travels.

Because we always want to provide our Scouts the best experience possible, we often perceive things as worse than they are. 

• Yes, it's camporee - but you don't have to go.  If you tell the DE and camporee chair you're pulling out because you don't have a female leader - you've just made your problem their problem too.  You might just get an email from an experienced Scouter willing to go. 
• Not sure how big your troop is - but I'm guessing you get a pretty good participation in camporee.  I imagine that most of the Scouts in the troop have a mother.  Some of the mothers probably even were Girl Scouts at one point.  When the Scouts start complaining to their parents about how they can't go, there's a good chance a mother will send you an email.
• Yes, your scouts said they'd quit - but somehow I don't think a bunch of Scouts who have spent years invested in your troop are going to quit because of one camporee. 

Hypothetically, say you did cancel.  You get some ticked off Scouts & leaders.  You then go to the next Committee meeting and have a frank discussion.  "Folks, we had to cancel this trip because we didn't have any female adults."  There would be some discussion - perhaps some even pretty tense.  But, I bet that it would set some things in motion.  I expect you'd start to see a few female adults start to show up at meetings and trips.

In these instances, I'm reminded of the book "Profiles in Courage".  Sometimes you have to do the right thing - regardless of the perceived outcome.  The funny thing is that when we've made similar hard choices to do the right thing, it almost always ends up being a very well received decision. 

 

[an_old_DC]

@Eagle94-A1 does your district have a female DE? Maybe she could help? Does your council have an official or self-proclaimed Family Scouting Advocate/Champion or some such? If so, they should be helping...hold them accountable

[Buggie]

At our recent Webelos event, where the Webelos are embedded camp out with troops  and then the troops host various events for them, we had one all girl unit. It wasn't a perfect run. There was some confusion in how things should be handled. At first one of the District level folks balked at the fact that the girl Webelos unit was set up inside the scout troop. They were required to move to a separate campsite. The whole thing is an unknown for folks, how do they handle it? It's not defined by national yet all the way. And hopefully we'll get some guidance on that. Further more, post event day, the Webelos are invited to visit other troop campsites and see what they are like. Deserts are typically a good draw. However the girl unit was not allowed to visit anyone because they were girls and those in charge didn't know how to handle that. I should state that the Girls Webelos unit had two deep leadership staffed by women, so hooray for that! 

But the actual event went off without a hitch. The Webelos all gathered and split up and walked around to different events and had a great time. None of them seemed to care about the whole gender novelty.