Boys-only weeks at camp

[shortridge]

For summer 2019, my council has set aside a quarter of the total camp weeks for  only boys’ troops. Is anyone else seeing or doing this? Was there a significant demand from your existing troops to segregate summer camp like that?

[scotteg83]

My council is dragging its feet on everything.  We even had girls at Webelos Resident camp this last summer, and ran into some YPT cover issues (no female leadership for some attendees), but still have yet put in a plan for next year.  Its almost like they are waiting for National to just hand them a set of expectations.

[Hawkwin]

25 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

My council is dragging its feet on everything.  We even had girls at Webelos Resident camp this last summer, and ran into some YPT cover issues (no female leadership for some attendees), but still have yet put in a plan for next year.  Its almost like they are waiting for National to just hand them a set of expectations.

Was the rule requiring female YPT leaders in effect by this summer? I feel like it wasn't a requirement at that time but I don't honestly recall.

[scotteg83]

5 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Was the rule requiring female YPT leaders in effect by this summer? I feel like it wasn't a requirement at that time but I don't honestly recall.

The Female rule was part of the early adopter program, which all of our attendees were apart of.

[Hawkwin]

4 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

The Female rule was part of the early adopter program, which all of our attendees were apart of.

? I am a Den Leader as part of the EAP and I don't recall that being a requirement. I recall it being made public that it was going to be a requirement sometime in May or there about.

[Hawkwin]

26 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

The Female rule was part of the early adopter program, which all of our attendees were apart of.

Here is the thread where the YPT proposed changes where discussed.

The proposed changes were announced in April. I don't know the official implementation date but I think it was supposed to start when all packs, not just the early adopters, opened their doors to girls. This likely left summer camps in a bit of limbo between the old and the new rules and as such, likely were not required to implement the new rules.

I am pretty sure having female leaders was not a requirement when EAP first rolled out last year. If you have a reference stating otherwise, please share it.

 

Edit: I think I discovered my confusion. While having female YPT adult leaders was a requirement for the PACK, it was not requirement on the Den level until recently. I don't honestly know how that impacted camps for the summer. I know my daughter went to cub scout day camp and while we did not have our own female YPT den leader at the time, there were plenty of other YPT females in attendance.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Hawkwin

[walk in the woods]

The Female leadership for co-ed events requirement has been in the G2SS for years.  The YPT bit was new, but, it was never an issue for Cub or Boy Scouts.

Edited October 4, 2018 by walk in the woods

[T2Eagle]

Our council hasn't announced anything.  Given the expected numbers I think most weeks will be boys only, or effectively so, without anyone doing much of anything.

We have five districts in our council, the goal is to have at least one girls troop in each district, I think we're going to meet that goal but not exceed it by much.  So at best we'll have eight maybe ten troops in council.  I think our camp is almost 50-50 in and out of council units these days, and it looks like we camp about 200 units each year so if we had all our own girl troops and doubled it with out of council troops that would mean we only have 10% of units would be girl troops, and I think that's optimistic.

 

[gblotter]

4 hours ago, shortridge said:

Was there a significant demand from your existing troops to segregate summer camp like that?

Our troop is engaged in summer camp planning right now. During the discussions, I alerted the boys that next summer they will be joined by girls at summer camp. Several boys then asked that we organize our own summer camp instead and completely avoid BSA summer camps. Those discussions are still ongoing. The concept of co-ed summer camp is proving to be a big deal for both boys and parents.

 

4 hours ago, shortridge said:

For summer 2019, my council has set aside a quarter of the total camp weeks for only boys’ troops. Is anyone else seeing or doing this?

With so few girl troops anticipated, perhaps the real question should be why so many summer camp weeks are being designated as co-ed.

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Our troop is engaged in summer camp planning right now. During the discussions, I alerted the boys that next summer they will be joined by girls at summer camp. Several boys then asked that we organize our own summer camp instead and completely avoid BSA summer camps. Those discussions are still ongoing. The concept of co-ed summer camp is proving to be a big deal for both boys and parents.

Troops summer camps are a lot of fun, and a A LOT of work. Troops that run their own camps like them so much they plan them for several years. But the logistics can almost be overwhelming. Food alone requires a team to shop, transport and distribute to each patrol. The advancement team needs to decide on what they want to teach and start finding teachers and counselors to plan and develop their equipment list. A great start would be to find a WB logistics chairman (can't remember what they are called) because they have a very good system to get ready for something like this.

I'm not trying to discourage your PLC, on the contrary, I believe it will bond your scouts and develop more scout growth than any other troop activity. But, if the PLC goes ahead with it, the troop needs to start planning NOW. 

Barry

[shortridge]

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

With so few girl troops anticipated, perhaps the real question should be why so many summer camp weeks are being designated as co-ed.

Because girls aren’t second-class citizens, and boys don’t get priority.

[shortridge]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

But, if the PLC goes ahead with it, the troop needs to start planning NOW. 

I’m agreeing with Barry on something! 🤨

A thousand times this. It’s a lot more intensive than you’d think.

Also be aware that a unit-run camp does not count for OA eligibility.

[scotteg83]

2 hours ago, gblotter said:

Our troop is engaged in summer camp planning right now. During the discussions, I alerted the boys that next summer they will be joined by girls at summer camp. Several boys then asked that we organize our own summer camp instead and completely avoid BSA summer camps. Those discussions are still ongoing. The concept of co-ed summer camp is proving to be a big deal for both boys and parents.

 

With so few girl troops anticipated, perhaps the real question should be why so many summer camp weeks are being designated as co-ed.

There was someone on Facebook complaining because their council chose the "crappy" camp for Girls only weeks, and the "better" camp was still boy only.  Why should Girls (who are supposed to have full access to the program) be limited in their outings as well.

 

Our local Scout camp did a Venture, Ship, Post, etc week that was Co-ed.  They did the merit badges and experiences (not that they could earn them officially, unless they were dual registered as a Scout)

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, gblotter said:

...

With so few girl troops anticipated, perhaps the real question should be why so many summer camp weeks are being designated as co-ed.

Well this is a demand planning challenge. My troop, for example, would be happy to share camp with BSA4G units. Our week is our week -- down to the trees we hang clotheslines from. What other troops come and go in other camps is immaterial at this point. If we can put up with boys from MD, we can put up with girls from anywhere else.

So, a council doesn't just have to think about the number of BSA4G units that are out there, but the number of troops who would only come to camp if no BSA4G units are there. @shortridge's council is betting that they can fill their weeks if 25% are B-O camps. Other camps will make different bets.  Some might have some BSA4G units who ask for G-O weeks. It's not a new concept. SBR effectively did this back when they hosted the GS/USA jamboree.  So, I can foresee camps in really diverse councils making 3 types of weeks available -- possibly 4 as GS/USA has shed a lot of properties and many of those girls are still asking for a summer camp.

[gblotter]

1 hour ago, shortridge said:

Because girls aren’t second-class citizens, and boys don’t get priority.

So if a girl-only troop gravitates to a girl-only week at a BSA camp, I supposed that means those girls consider boys to be second class citizens, right?